To: marcos who wrote ( 160472) 4/14/2005 3:00:32 PM From: carranza2 Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281497 You likely know all this stuff ... Well, most of it. But my interest is concentrated with the nortenos not the surianos, and I therefore bow to your obvious greater knowledge of things down south, and thank you for pitching in on the discussion. I have always thought that Zapata could not read and I know Pancho couldn't, well, I know as well as I know anything, which means I could be wrong. I've seen pictures of him with a pencil in his coat, which makes me wonder.....maybe he could read and write. Here is one, the cover to Katz's most excellent work--take a look at his front pocket: amazon.com My specific interest in the northern part comes about from the fact that one of my Americano relatives may have well sold the bullets that were used at Cuchillo Parado on November 14, 1910. Some argue that the first shots of the Revolucion were shot off by Toribio Ortega at Cuchillo Parado, and it thrills me to think that maybe someone in my bloodline sold the bullets that set off La Revolucion on November 14, 1910, a few days ahead of the rest of the gang. I have a very nice framed photo of my relative and Toribio Ortega which I am looking at right now, so it's not just a bunch of baloney. What a couple of unbelievable characters those two were. A bantam rooster was my relative, Toribio was the picture of humble dignity and courage. The mental picture I have of Zapata sitting down to read Marx makes me laugh. Like Pancho V., he probably would have found Marx windy, boring, etc.--Dialectical what??? Don't give me that mierda, tell me something I can use. Flores Magon was indeed an anarchist, and there were a couple more. After the Revolucion, there were also a few anarcho-syndicalists hanging about, whatever that means [the more heated and devoted to the ideology one becomes, the finer the ideological distinctions, to the point that they become meaningless.] But none of these ideologues ever held power in any signficant way, I guess Lombardo Toledano briefly being an exception but not in a way that really, truly mattered. The gripe with the Church was long brewing, since the Spaniards, really, and Calles was brutal in suppressing it, though some will say, and I will probably agree with them, that the Church and the zealots behind the Cristero stuff got what they deserved. At the end, it was an unhappy confluence of zealots from all sides that kicked off that nasty bit of history. Another accident of history. But not Marxists, by golly, no Marxists rounding up priests and killing off nuns.