To: Lazarus_Long who wrote ( 70930) 10/27/2003 4:20:15 AM From: zonder Respond to of 70976 I don't remember agreeing to anything siliconinvestor.com You seem to be agreeing there that it is not only some ME people who cause deaths due to their belief systems. You seem to want to hold Europeans up as the epitome of civilization No, I don't. I suggest you check AJ's findings. Then see what you can find on the Amish. Then get back to us No. I suggest I don't waste my time thus. I suggest I just point out that a couple of hundred deaths per year is not a significant number given more than a hundred million people. >>>2) ME is in fact much safer in terms of murder and rape, than most other places, the US in particular (see the statistics website I provided in an earlier post)<<< Repressive gov'ts repress lots of things, yes. What? Are you saying rape is "repressed"? Murder is "repressed"? Are you trying to say that it is a Bad Thing that ME has far less rape and murder than in the US? ME gov't (other than possibly Israel) do you wish to hold up as the paragon of democracy? I don't wish to hold any ME government as "paragon" of democracy. (I wouldn't show the US as "paragon" of democracy, either, especially after the appearance of the Patriot Act). Israel and Turkey are democratic countries. I would love to see you try to argue that it is because of a repressive government that rape is so low in Turkey :-) So you see no difference between these situations: (1) A crook is caught by police robbing your home, is arrested, tried, convicted, and does 10 years in the slammer. (2) You grab someone you think did it and lock them up in a cage in your backyard Oh that sounds like: (1) Iraq violates UN resolutions, and the UN decides the proper way of dealing with it (2) US decides to play vigilante, and invades a country they THINK has WMDs :-) To answer the point you were trying to make, though, no, it doesn't make it any better that it is the state killing people. Especially since the state is not foolproof, either, and that recent DNA tests have proven the innocence of some convicts already killed by the US state. If they were serving life sentences, they could at least be set free with an apology.