SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Technology Stocks : Dell Technologies Inc. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Yamakita who wrote (148807)12/9/1999 7:32:00 AM
From: JRI  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 176387
 
Chuzz, Yamakita...

Would also love to get comments to the following:

Although I agree with the premise that many stocks, especially unproven (pure) internets, are currently overvalued in today's market, I also think we do have a (somewhat) new paradigm concerning investment valuation (re: market risk premium), and other factors..which makes comparisons of PE's, etc. to earlier, historical times (somewhat, but not fully irrelevant)

(1) Fall of communism/victory of democracy/capitalism- Although it is impossible to evaluate to what extent market(s) had already priced this in, in comparing many stocks (at least the ones I like <G>) to the Nifty 50 of the 1960's (or other periods)...there are some huge differences...In the 1960's, it was not entirely clear that a company like Xerox would be able to sell its products (effeciently, effectively) in a country like China (or India or Russia) anytime in our lifetime....therefore, with the "victory" (I use that term very lightly) of West, this has opened up entire new market(s) to many, many products/services that would have (hereinto) been limited in their growth pattern...if market(s) would have been limited to the U.S. and a then, mostly-socialist Europe.......Another factor is (that) the risk of global destruction, massive world war has been reduced significantly (not smaller conflicts since the fall of the East vs. West confict...

How disruptive would it be (to companies) selling products (if we were involved in such a war)? How would there cash flow, profit stream been affected....Clearly, this risk has been reduced (although not eliminated). Surely the market(s) had priced in that risk in the 1950's, 1960's, etc? How much is (the reduction of that risk) worth?

China, Russia, India, Indonesia, Pakistan...these are going to be huge markets for the next several decades...

Of course, the trick is to find companies that have proven (Dell) that they can effectively and effecietly expand to these huge overseas markets.....decent indication (although not perfect) that they will also do well in the future)...Look at many retailers....all things being equal, they will have a much more difficult time expanding to many foreign lands (and, as a result, their stock prices should be discounted, and probably are, appropriately)

(2) Victory of "U.S."-style Capitalism- Free(r) Trade, ROI, ROE, U.S-type accounting standards....Although there is a long ways still to go, U.S- style capitalism (for better or for worse, socially, culturally) is winning, has (essentially) won the war, and many more companies (countries) are being run on the principal(s).........One fact alone: Look how many countries now run budget surpluses(s) (with intention, as a policy goal) or, at least, try to..........This has led to efficiencies in utilization of all sorts of resources (including capital), lower tax burden for existing companies, etc........It is easier for companies (even if we consider a country like Germany) like Dell to operate under "U.S." capitalism rules there, because now you have a number of workers, management, and government that are "geared" towards the rules, which allows the company the produce more profit...I admit, this is a bit nebulous to account for, but nonetheless, significant...By all means (especially with U.S GAAP style accounting), there is still a lot of improvement need, but, at the very least, the "world" trend is much more clear than in the 70's, 60's, 50's..

"Necessity" of technology- Technology, for many companies, is no longer a separate sector of the company, it is now recognized as part of (all) companies competitive advantage....or survival...It is no longer a question of should we?....rather, how quickly can we implement.....For those companies that produce technology products for which there is currently no alternative (a better example than Dell would be a company like EMC or Cisco, IMO)...I would argue that they have a much less cyclical business than a company like Coke...How much is it worth (premium) to own a company that makes essential products that companies MUST buy for the next many years vs. preferances (Coke)?/

(4) The internet- The internet HAS changed everything. It will be growing at an extroadinary rate for many years to come....regardless if GDP grows at 1%, 3%, or 5% in Indonesia or the U.S...the internet IS going to be built...companies, countries ARE going to have to play by ITS rules....and........the "buildout" of the internet (especially internationally)..is going to go on for some years to come...Many U.S. companies are the clear leader here...with no alternative(s) in sight...When was the last time that a sector (and individual companies) had such a clear and overwhelming growth path ahead (relatively, but certainly not entirely) without risk? What is that worth?

As comparison, What was (is) more certain?: That Cisco's routers are going to be used (on a massive scale) around the world in the next 10 yrs. OR that, in the 1960's, Coca-Cola would be able to convince more people around the world to buy their product(s) in the 1970's, 1980's.........I can't go back in time, but I think that Cisco is a sure(r) thing....

(5) Deregulation of U.S. financial markets (I'm thinking here of broker commission, etc), availability of information- Has decreased some risk(s), cost hurdles for the small investor-, although by no means eliminated..

(6) Necessity of individuals to save for their own retirement...not a valuation factor, but a liquidity issue....I guess one could argue (valuation), that the risk premium for equities should be further reduced, because, since the burden of retirement saving falls on the individual (now in U.S, soon in the rest of the world)...stocks are less risky, because individuals will HAVE to own a certain % going forward to allow themselves a shot at a decent retirement..there are few other (investment) vehicles that can match stock(s) consistent performance over time...So, there is going to be (already is)..some "permanent" demand....

So, my investment strategy has been to capitalize on these, to me, apparent factors....to find those companies that (1) Are building out the internet (as Chuzz mentioned) (2) Have proven they can expand, grow effectively, efficiently internationally (3) Are "jiggy" with cutting-edge U.S. capitalism (management techniques)..usually meaning they are U.S. companies...

To me, it is entirely logical that tech stocks have been the big growers of the last few years, that our market(s) have narrowed (other stocks....companies, in other industries have not grown near as much as the builders of the internet have/will), and that tech stocks, by extention, make up a larger and larger % of total net capitalization of stocks (in general)...this can not, will not go on forever, but I still think we are in a "sweet spot"...due to the underuse of technology in many parts of the world (they WILL catch up), internet in the rest of world...there is still a lot of growth left (for those companies that can seize the day)......the key, I think, we'll be to find (and keep) those companies (stocks) that fulfill the criteria I have listed above....and, additionally, have a proven track record of profitability, and consistent profit growth.....WHILE also, staying reasonably priced....although for the real premium companies of the group (Cisco, EMC, etc)...I think there valuations (built-in premiums) can stay excessive for quite a while...

That is, until they miss a quarter, or their technology become obsolete <G>



To: Yamakita who wrote (148807)12/9/1999 7:32:00 AM
From: Sig  Respond to of 176387
 
Wow: Thats a great post from Kelly
He could be useful around here if we count break him loosee
from the Q thread.
Here is another one supports my own idea on how
one can survive a downturn- look for a stock that can grow out of the situation.

Lucius,
My feeling is that it is not diversification of one's portfolio that will protect against permanent drops of this magnitude, but rather, concentration in Gorilla stocks, i.e. ones which, by definition, will not endure such a decline for very long.
Lest we forget, "Diversifcation is a hedge against ignorance." WB
Kelly



To: Yamakita who wrote (148807)12/9/1999 12:42:00 PM
From: Chuzzlewit  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 176387
 
Yamakita, I'd be glad to respond.

1) The current environment of rapid disintermediation, destruction, and reconstruction of businesses, demands that premium value be awarded to those businesses that "get it" at the expense of those that do not.

Of course this is true. Either you evolve and adapt to a changing environment or you become extinct. The question is
whether the premium is financially justified.

2) The expanding availability (Reach and Richness) of relevant information for investors, is dissolving much of the risk involved in buying great businesses. Since we know that the net present value (share price) of a stream of future cash flows (earnings) grows exponentially with declining discount rates (risks) applied to those cash flows, higher values for the best businesses are a fait accompli.

This is arrant nonsense for a number of reasons.

First, econometric models are notoriously poor at forecasting. Alan Greenspan had some apt comments about the tremendous uncertainty in those models.

Second, much of the earnings visibilty is due to "earnings management", which is a fancy way of saying that the accounting systems of many companies are rigged. The SEC is cracking down on these practices.

Third, the relationship between PV and interest rates is inverse. For example, a perpetuity of $1 with a discount rate of 5% is 20. At a 2.5% rate it is $40, and at 10% it is $10.

Fourth, the writer assumes declining interest rates.

Fifth, there is no relationship between earnings and free cash flow (and FCF is the basis for discounted cash flow analysis).

3) Similarly, the net present values of these companies are exponential with the growth rates of their cash flows, and therefore their PE ratio's logically ought to expand exponentially, and are continuing to do so.

It is quite true that NPV increases with increasing growth rates, but the parameter of interest is free cash flow, not earnings (which are accounting fictions). But the relationship is not exponential. Let me illustrate. Suppose we have exactly four cash flows growing at 10%, and the appropriate discount rate is 5%. So the anticipated future cash flows are $1.10, $1.21, $1.331, and $1.4641. The PV is $4.4994. If the growth rate doubled to 20% the anticipated cash flows would be $1.20, 1.44, 1.72, and 2.0736. The PV of that stream (again using a 5% discount rate) is $5.6476. If the relationship were a simple exponential function, as the post would have you believe, a doubling of the growth rate ought to lead to a quadrupling of the PV. Clearly, this example illustrates that that is not the case.

*****

What you have here is a rationalization of "things are different this time".

TTFN,
CTC