We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon
Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
This is an April 20, 2021 article about the sudden appearance of ‘Factorial Energy’ in the race to produce an ASSB using a proprietary polymer separator
QuatumScape is mentioned a couple times in the article.
There are five metrics on which a battery is judged:
how much energy it packs,
how fast it charges,
how many charge-discharge cycles it lasts,
how safe it is, and
how much it costs.
Factorial’s current batteries reach energy density of 350 watt-hours per kilogram and 770 watt-hours per liter. The company’s aim is to reach 400 Wh/kg and 1,000 Wh/l.. But not much better than existing L-ion technology
Factorial’s battery can do up to 460 charge-discharge cycles before its capacity falls below 80%. That’s more than what Solid Power promises with 250 cycles, but less than QuantumScape at 800 cycles.
It looks like QuantumScape, has the a very big war chest with $1.5 billion compared to the other ASSB startups.
Factorial started internally testing batteries with 40 amp-hours of capacity, about 10 times the size of a smartphone battery. That’s double the 20 Ah battery that Solid Power has built and many times the size of the largest battery QuantumScape has disclosed. (The size of a QuantumScape’s disclosed battery does not bother me too much since the industry is very secretive about their research. CARKEY)
solid-state battery partnerships:
Toyota Corp. is working with Panasonic,
Volkswagen AG with QuantumScape,
General Motors Co. with Solid Energy Systems,
Ford Motor Co. with Solid Power and
Mercedes Benz AG with Hydro Quebec
Solid-state batteries are set to see rapid increase in demand after 2030, eventually outpacing current lithium-ion batteries
Thanks to Cooters for starting this board. I started following QS when I saw Munro Live do an interview. The two discuss the short attack at one point. It's long but worth watching if you're invested.
Hello and thanks for starting the board. I'm new to QS, impressed with some of the videos and discussion, bought some shares.
One thing puzzles me: the QS video seems to show that the cell size changes as the anode forms while charging . That would seem to me to create problems for layering multiple cells.
Maybe it's shown that way for emphasis on their clever anode approach...or maybe the cell gets fully charged before any layering in the manufacturing process, and doesn't change at all once that occurs...
Also wondering if anyone knows the specifics of the next major milestone that will control the next tranche from VW?
Why the Hype Around Battery Startup QuantumScape Is Discharging
The former stock-market darling still has a market value of $10 billion, which is a lot to take on little but hope and trust
By Stephen Wilmot Heard On The Street Wall Street Journal Updated Aug. 25, 2021 12:45 pm ET
QuantumScape’s battery research has produced some promising test results, but details of its technology have been limited. PHOTO: NICHOLAS ALBRECHT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL -----------------------------------
This column is part of the Heard on the Street Stock Picking Contest. You’re invited to play along with us here.
As a black-box company in a technical industry, battery startup QuantumScapeQS -0.23% was always an unlikely investor darling. Chances that it can revive the early hype around its early-stage technology seem slim.
The company, which went public last fall via a special-purpose acquisition company, says it has hit on a wonder material that could, based on initial testing, enable the manufacture of “solid state” batteries with pure lithium anodes. This would be a breakthrough innovation, extending battery range, supporting fast charging and reducing costs. Electric vehicles might finally be as cheap and easy to fill with power as today’s gas ones.
QuantumScape became a stock-market sensation, with a strong following among individual investors. Valued at $3.3 billion in the deal that brought it to market, the company reached a peak enterprise value of more than $30 billion as 2021 dawned, according to FactSet (more, factoring in stock options and other forms of share issuance).
A steadily falling share price has since brought that number back to about $7.3 billion. Even that is out of kilter with peers. Solid Power, another solid-state startup, agreed to merge with a SPAC in June at an enterprise value of $1.2 billion. British peer Ilika is capitalized at less than $300 million.
The difference can only be justified if QuantumScape really has found the holy grail of battery research. This isn’t clear. The company hasn’t disclosed details of the revolutionary ceramic material at the heart of its cell design, making it impossible for scientists to verify. The test results it has published are promising as far as they go, but that isn’t far.
After years of secrecy, the newly public company said in December that the single-layer cells it tested through repeated charges and discharges retained more than 80% of their power even after 800-plus cycles, implying they could be driven hundreds of thousands of miles. It also said they performed at very low temperatures, and could be recharged to 80% of their power in under 15 minutes. These are impressive numbers, but old industry hands cautioned that achieving the same results with multiple layers of electrodes—an essential step toward making batteries big enough to power cars—would be tough.
Since then, the company has focused on increasing the layer count, first to four layers and then 10. A tweet Wednesday showed that its four-layer cells retained their power for 800 cycles under test conditions. The company hasn’t given updates on low-temperature operation or fast charging.
In April, activist short seller Scorpion Capital accused QuantumScape of running a “pump and dump SPAC scam,” which the startup’s chief executive has denied. Even battery experts who give the company’s reports the benefit of the doubt say it faces massive hurdles at the manufacturing stage and that its timeline is wildly ambitious. QuantumScape wants to enter commercial production some time in 2024 or 2025.
Some investors might be comforted by the backing of Volkswagen. In reality, the German automotive giant’s ongoing support may say more about the strategic priorities of Chief Executive Herbert Diess, a big fan of electric vehicles, than about QuantumScape. VW also got in cheap: It paid $300 million in various installments for a 17.7% stake, implying an equity value of $1.7 billion.
Factoring in stock options, QuantumScape’s “diluted” equity value is now $10 billion. It is a lot to take on little but hope and trust.
"Solid-state batteries are set to see rapid increase in demand after 2030, eventually outpacing current lithium-ion batteries"
Maybe... prove you can make one that works better and cheaper than the existing tech (and its improvement over time) before hyping the sales potential ?
I did wander past a QS advert recently... and poked at it briefly...
What I noted was that they were touting their "progress" in making bigger/better packages delivering larger numbers expressed in Amp hours...
But, if you do the math based on the area they provided x the # of layers... really all they were doing was using more of the same material with the same function in a larger package... and calling that improvement?
That's the sort of "improvement" you get if you power your flashlight with four batteries instead or two ?
Would be far more convincing if they published actually meaningful figures of merit rather than irrelevant data when claiming "improvement" in function... ? So, I did go back and look at the language they used... and they were actually careful to NOT claim it as improvement in function... rather than improvement in packaging into a bigger size with "more" in it.. not any "more" coming out of it ?
FWIW... I'm not long QS or any other... and not short QS or any other... rather than having an interest as I used to work on this and related tech in my own lab back in the... late 1990's. So, know the potential... just don't see that there's actually been a lot of progress made recently in advancing toward realizing it... yet.
Worth watching the space to see IF there is progress of that sort made... and then, WHEN there is... maybe useful to sort potential winners and losers...
Could be the news is just cover for Bill Gates discovery that there are ants at his picnic ?
Did the SPAC see the backers exit or just enable them to exit... later ?
Otherwise, "San Jose-based QuantumScape declined to identify the automaker, but said the company was a "second top ten" automaker by global revenue"... leaves you wondering... which VW subsidiary would that be ?
