| To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70930) | 10/27/2003 4:20:15 AM | | From: zonder | | | | I don't remember agreeing to anything
siliconinvestor.com
You seem to be agreeing there that it is not only some ME people who cause deaths due to their belief systems.
You seem to want to hold Europeans up as the epitome of civilization
No, I don't.
I suggest you check AJ's findings. Then see what you can find on the Amish. Then get back to us
No. I suggest I don't waste my time thus. I suggest I just point out that a couple of hundred deaths per year is not a significant number given more than a hundred million people.
>>>2) ME is in fact much safer in terms of murder and rape, than most other places, the US in particular (see the statistics website I provided in an earlier post)<<<
Repressive gov'ts repress lots of things, yes.
What?
Are you saying rape is "repressed"? Murder is "repressed"? Are you trying to say that it is a Bad Thing that ME has far less rape and murder than in the US?
ME gov't (other than possibly Israel) do you wish to hold up as the paragon of democracy?
I don't wish to hold any ME government as "paragon" of democracy. (I wouldn't show the US as "paragon" of democracy, either, especially after the appearance of the Patriot Act). Israel and Turkey are democratic countries. I would love to see you try to argue that it is because of a repressive government that rape is so low in Turkey :-)
So you see no difference between these situations:
(1) A crook is caught by police robbing your home, is arrested, tried, convicted, and does 10 years in the slammer.
(2) You grab someone you think did it and lock them up in a cage in your backyard
Oh that sounds like:
(1) Iraq violates UN resolutions, and the UN decides the proper way of dealing with it
(2) US decides to play vigilante, and invades a country they THINK has WMDs
:-)
To answer the point you were trying to make, though, no, it doesn't make it any better that it is the state killing people. Especially since the state is not foolproof, either, and that recent DNA tests have proven the innocence of some convicts already killed by the US state.
If they were serving life sentences, they could at least be set free with an apology. |
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| To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70936) | 10/27/2003 4:39:31 AM | | From: zonder | | | | If this is such an abberation, why is it that so many other other ME nations seem to want to turn into Islamic theocracies?
Yes, honor killings are rare and happen almost exclusively in the uneducated, over-conservative, ultra-religious corners.
Your question as to why countries with Muslim majorities fight movements that intend to turn them to Islamic theocracies is unrelated to honor killings. But it is an interesting one.
I don't claim to know the ultimate answer to this, but it seems to me that religion gives the guy at the top of it a great power - there are absolute do's and don'ts and he gets to decide which is which. He can command absolute control of an ignorant population who follow him because they are religious.
This dynamic is very tempting for those seeking power, and is very often abused. I saw that trend in several places - politicians vying for power trying to tap into the religious core.
One of the dangers with Iraq is that if the US pulls out, an "Islamic democracy" is exactly what we will get
Just how you think US will ever prevent it, if that's what Iraqis want? What if they vote for a religious fundamentalist in the elections? What is the US going to do? Invade them again? Promote a coup d'etat a la Chilean?
It will be interesting to see how events unfold from here. I would be very disappointed if US lets an Islamist rule take hold of Iraq, but I don't know what they can do to prevent it, quite honestly.
Gee, there sure seem to be a lot of countries there that want to turn into repressive, female-abusing theocracies
I don't understand your point, if any.
In spite of all the **** you throw at the US
I don't throw any four-stars at the US. I don't agree with the current US administration's way of four-starring the world. If that's alright with you, I will continue to express my opinion on that. Thank you.
I'll take a wife, not a slave.
Good for you. Completely irrelevant, of course. |
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| To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70936) | 11/4/2003 12:26:57 PM | | From: E. T. | | | | Get this... From Arab News -- "Muslims are tolerant because they believe in the three prophets - Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) -- therefore they respect Christianity and believe in its teachings. To ban girls in hijab from education is an affront to Islam, Muslims and their beliefs."
arabnews.com
This from Saudi Arabia where children were shuffled back into a burning school to die because they were not in hijab. I'll take American freedom any day of the week, no doubt, so would have those young dead saudi students. |
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| To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70945) | 11/4/2003 3:48:13 PM | | From: E. T. | | | | | The Saudi paper's story was complaint against the state of Oklahoma where a Muslim student was forbidden to attend the Franklin Science Academy because of her insistence on wearing the hijab. |
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| To: E. T. who wrote (70946) | 11/4/2003 3:51:35 PM | | From: Lazarus_Long | | | | | I read it. I was being facetious. One school board or one principal does not the United States make. This is why we have a judicial system. I would be interested in knowing what the courts had to say. My guess is that the student won. |
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| To: average joe who wrote (70939) | 11/6/2003 8:33:39 PM | | From: Solon | | | | "Since her murder, debate has raged about ways to better integrate immigrants into society and protect thousands of young women in Fadime's situation from a similar fate."
Isn't it so very very nice that the murderers will get to heaven. They are so special... |
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