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To: zonder who wrote (70904)10/23/2003 7:52:46 PM
From: Lazarus_Long
   of 70976
 
I pointed out that it is an inhuman, outdated practice
This is according to feel-good dizzy wimps in Europe.

That appears bizarre and inhuman to Europeans. But you don't think it is, obviously.
Let's see, this is coming from those devout humanists who let a murderous civil war rage RIGHT IN THEIR BACKYARD (Yugoslavia) for years and tens of thousands of deaths, including genocide, and did NOTHING until the people you criticize shamed them into it- -and led the way. Right? These are are the dedicated humanists you defend?

Crap.

Violence is justified only in self-defense.
I presume, then, that Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain is one of your heroes?

You are talking about the latter here.
Oh, but they come out of the same cultures- -they ones you defend so arduously.

OK. One honor killing in Turkey. How many in Palestine? Jordan? Pakistan?
Every year, hundreds of women and girls are murdered in the Middle East by male family members.
.........................................................
Given that honor killings often remain a private family affair, no official statistics are available on the practice or its frequency. According to a November 1997 report of the Woman's Empowerment Project published in Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, there were 20 honor killings in Gaza and the West Bank in 1996. One representative of the group added, "We know there are more but no one publicizes it." Similarly, an unofficial report given to the Palestinian Women's Working Society stated that "recently" 40 women have been killed for honor in Gaza. The report defined neither the period in which these murders took place nor the exact circumstances. During the summer of 1997, Khaled Al-Qudra, then Attorney General in the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), told Sout Al-Nissa' (Women's Voices), a supplement published by the Women's Affairs Technical Committee (WATC), that he suspects that 70 percent of all murders in Gaza and the West Bank are honor killings.

merip.org

In some countries such as Jordan, Morocco and Syria, “honor crimes” are also legally sanctioned and defense of the family honor is considered a mitigating factor. Article 340 of the Penal Code of Jordan, for example, provides for an exemption from penalty if a man kills his wife or female relative after finding her “committing adultery with another.” It provides for a reduction in penalty if a man kills his wife or female relative after finding her “with another in an unlawful bed.” Similarly, Article 548 of the Penal Code of Syria also provides an exemption from penalty if a man kills or injures his wife or female after finding her committing adultery or other “illegitimate sexual acts with another.” The law also provides for a reduction in penalty for a man who kills or injures his female relative after catching her in a “suspicious state with another.” Also of concern is the way in which legislation in various countries awards lesser punishment in cases where the victim is considered to have “provoked” the crime by violating cultural norms.
feminist.com

Hey, there's plenty more I found. You sure you want to go down this road?

You seem to think this doesn't happen in the Middle East. At least in the parts I know, you are wrong.
It would appear your acquaintance with the area is limited to the areas you want to see.

BTW, as I mentioned earlier , it is rather common for courts in this country to intervene in situations where a parent's medical decisions put a child's life is serious danger. And that includes Jehovah's Witnesses and transfusions.

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To: Rainy_Day_Woman who wrote (70856)10/23/2003 11:46:19 PM
From: Lazarus_Long
   of 70976
 
not in treatment of females

not even close

Not unless you're really, REALLY, REALLY determined to make it come out that way, anyway.

I wonder.....

She cites the low percentage of rapes that are solved in the US.

I wonder what the percentage would be in the countries she cites.

Particularly since they would be reported only when absolutely unavoidable, given the awful consequences that ensue.

10-to-1: zonder is of Middle Eastern, very likely Islamic background. Yes?

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To: zonder who wrote (70907)10/23/2003 11:55:16 PM
From: Lazarus_Long
   of 70976
 
Risk to what precisely? Just what is it you intend to do?

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To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70910)10/24/2003 8:51:16 AM
From: average joe
   of 70976
 
Commodifying Honor in Female Sexuality
Honor Killings
in Palestine

Suzanne Ruggi

The family constitutes the fundamental building-block of Palestinian society. Family status is largely dependent upon its honor, much of which is determined by the respectability of its daughters, who can damage it irreparably by the perceived misuse of their sexuality

Every year, hundreds of women and girls are murdered in the Middle East by male family members. The honor killing-the execution of a female family member for perceived misuse of her sexuality-is a thorny social and political issue. Palestinian activists campaigning for equality find it difficult to stop the killings altogether. Legitimacy for such murders stems from a complex code of honor ingrained in the consciousness of some sectors of Palestinian society.

Given that honor killings often remain a private family affair, no official statistics are available on the practice or its frequency. According to a November 1997 report of the Woman's Empowerment Project published in Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, there were 20 honor killings in Gaza and the West Bank in 1996. One representative of the group added, "We know there are more but no one publicizes it." Similarly, an unofficial report given to the Palestinian Women's Working Society stated that "recently" 40 women have been killed for honor in Gaza. The report defined neither the period in which these murders took place nor the exact circumstances. During the summer of 1997, Khaled Al-Qudra, then Attorney General in the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), told Sout Al-Nissa' (Women's Voices), a supplement published by the Women's Affairs Technical Committee (WATC), that he suspects that 70 percent of all murders in Gaza and the West Bank are honor killings.

Though a growing number of Palestinians find honor killings unacceptable, the practice continues. "No one knows the magnitude, because no one has conducted a study," said Lisa Taraki, associate professor of sociology at Birzeit University. Women's organizations have mobilized against the killings, but are furious that the practice continues in spite of the legal prohibitions. The killings violate the right to life upheld in versions of the draft Basic Law and openly discriminate against women. The woman alone is punished for the "crime;" whereas the man, who may have raped his victim, is considered an innocent party and often walks free.

The honor killing emerged in the pre-Islamic era, according to Sharif Kanaana, professor of anthropology at Birzeit University. It is, he believes, "a complicated issue that cuts deep into the history of Arab society." He argues that the honor killing stemmed from the patriarchal and patrilineal society's interest in maintaining strict control over designated familial power structures. "What the men of the family, clan, or tribe seek control of in a patrilineal society is reproductive power. Women for the tribe were considered a factory for making men. The honor killing is not a means to control sexual power or behavior. What's behind it is the issue of fertility, or reproductive power."

In an Islamic context, punishment for relationships out of wedlock is stipulated as 100 lashes if the woman is single, or if married, death by stoning. In both cases, however, there must be four witnesses willing to testify that the sexual act took place; conditions which make punishment difficult.

Examples cited by women's organizations show that women are also punished, even murdered, on the suspicion of having been involved in a sexual relationship. Victims of rape have met the same fate. Maintaining honor is deemed a woman's responsibility, whether or not she has been educated about sex or consented to the act. This illustrates that the ideological web of honor sanctions the honor killing for more than reproductive or religious reasons. Ultimately, says Kanaana, this code "prevents women from having sexual freedom or the right to use their sexual powers the way they want."

Murder for Family Honor

The family constitutes the fundamental building-block of Palestinian society. Family status is largely dependent upon its honor, much of which is determined by the respectability of its daughters, who can damage it irreparably by the perceived misuse of their sexuality. "The honor of a family is very dependent on a woman's virginity," said Shadia Sarraj of the Women's Empowerment Project at the Gaza Community Mental Health Project. A woman's virginity is the property of the men around her, first her father, later a gift for her husband; a virtual dowry as she graduates to marriage. In this context, a woman's 'ard (honor) is a commodity which must be guarded by a network of family and community members. The woman is guarded externally by her behavior and dress code and internally by keeping her hymen intact. Sexual relations out of wedlock do exist among young Palestinians, especially in student communities where women are living away from the watchful eye of their families. However, for most women, it is considered 'eib (shameful) to be seen alone with a male non-family member.

Centuries of rule by various foreign authorities have reinforced the family as a location of power in Palestinian society. Even today, the family is directly responsible for defending its honor. In many communities, this means that murder in the name of honor is family business, not frowned upon by the local community. As a result, the murderer is unlikely to be reprimanded in court.

Though she knows of many cases, Manal Kleibo Zarf, a female attorney at the Women's Center for Legal Aid and Counseling (WCLAC), has never been asked to prosecute an honor killing. She believes this is because Jordanian Law still applies to the West Bank. Article 341 considers murder a legitimate act of defense when "The act of killing another or harming another was committed as an act in defense of his life, or his honor, or somebody else's life or honor."

In a forthcoming publication on law and the status of women by the Women's Studies Program at Birzeit University, Penny Johnson writes that, regarding personal status, the Egyptian and Jordanian legal systems of the West Bank and Gaza are "based on a well-developed legal theory with a clearly defined model of family and gender relations that is patriarchal, patrilocal and patrilineal." This legal framework matches the prevailing ideology, and social and economic circumstances in the West Bank and Gaza. The single mother is not only an outcast of her community, she also has no role in the patriarchal legal system. Ostracized and without a husband or access to a social welfare system, an unmarried mother has no economic support. The honor killing, as an inherited mechanism, deters and eliminates deviation from the honor code, in order to perpetuate the traditional clusters of patriarchal familial power.

The "Battle"

Although honor killings constitute a violation of human rights, their precedent in tradition makes the issue complex for the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), and the emerging Palestinian legal system. Women's organizations have sought to strike efficiently and immediately at the new crystallizing power structures.

The lack of reliable statistics makes it difficult for activists to campaign against honor killings. Hanan 'Abdullah, from the Palestinian Women's Working Society, explains, "We do not have statistics, there is nothing official. It is very hard to handle lobbying activities without accurate information. The only people who know the actual number is the police. What we are trying to do, is to lobby the police and officials to publish statistics. Then we can move to highlight the issue."

The WCLAC is preparing a study entitled "Legal Victimization of Woman in the Arab World-a Palestinian Case Study." The Center is hoping to catalogue cases of honor killings in order to establish reliable statistics. Information will be drawn from cases brought to the Center's attention as well as follow-up on "suspicious" newspaper reports. The WCLAC hopes that this will provide documentation for future campaigns.

Employees at the Women's Empowerment Project regularly receive telephone threats as a result of their efforts to help victimized women. They are accused of rebelling against tradition and corrupting society. Nadira Shalhoub-Kervorkian, founder of the Palestinian women's hot line, Al-Amam, is adamant that the NGO under which the four-year-old service operates remain confidential. "When we started out, there were problems with individuals who opposed the idea. I was beaten twice," she said.

As a result of the sensitivity of the issue and the difficulties posed by the lack of complete data, efforts to combat honor killings have taken two general forms. First, women's organizations strive to provide practical services to protect and assist women in need. At the same time, a number of groups have launched a broader campaign directed at the development of a more gender-sensitive society and PNA.

Emergency Assistance

Women's NGOs provide emergency assistance for women in danger for having violated "honor codes." Services offered by the Al-Amam hotline and other organizations include counseling and referrals for hymen-repair operations. Samia, who learned of the hotline from a press advertisement, says the hotline "is always ready to help girls." When a fellow student became pregnant, Samia and her friends referred her to Al-Amam for advice.

Women's organizations have also established a good relationship with the Palestinian police force. For Su'ad Abu Dayyeh, recognition of the WCLAC and other centers by the police and governors is the most positive recent step in combating the victimization of women. She said that the police have "heard about the services our Center gives. They feel that we are committed and that they are ignorant. When they feel they cannot help, they contact us."

After Hania, a 30-year-old Gazan, became pregnant in 1996, she received a death threat. She turned to the police, who provided shelter and invited the Women's Empowerment Project to offer counseling services throughout the pregnancy, which was spent in a prison cell. The Project later referred the woman to another women's NGO, which sought a home for Hania and her baby boy. Both the Women's Empowerment Project in Gaza and WCLAC in the West Bank currently coordinate with the police force, providing workshops to train officers to deal with victimized woman.

According to Intisar Al-Wazir, Minister of Social Affairs and also a member of the PLC, the ministry is preparing to establish a shelter for women. The NGOs have also called for the availability of abortion as an option for women who become pregnant as a result of rape. Several women's organizations drafted a letter to the Palestinian Ministries of Health, Justice, and Social Affairs, demanding that the state meet with them to discuss state-sponsored abortions in such circumstances. Although the letter was sent in January 1997, no reply has been received.

Equal Rights

The achievements of NGOs in providing practical and emergency assistance women in danger are part of the larger struggle to ensure women's equal rights, to secure nondiscriminatory legislation and to increase public awareness of women's issues.

In 1995, a project entitled, "The Palestinian Model Parliament-Women and Legislation" was launched as part of the comprehensive effort. Al-Wazir commends this effort, noting that previous efforts were "very weak due to lack of unity." The project, initiated by WCLAC, involves 15 women's organizations training men and women throughout the West Bank and Gaza in legal literacy and advocacy. "Palestinians only have two years of experience of the Legislative Council," said Hanan Abdel-Rahman Rabbani, Project Manager. "It's still not clear to them what the role of their PLC member is, or what his or her relationship is with his or her constituency."

The project has focused on highlighting discriminatory legislation in laws, such as the personal status law. As Attorney Manal Kleibo Zarf has noted, "If a woman is raped, she cannot go to court on her own. Her case is only valid if she is accompanied by her father or her brother." The project is drafting amendments to redress such instances of gender discrimination. These amendments constitute the core of their lobbying activities, and are to be presented at a Central Model Parliament scheduled for March, 1998.

As Suheir Azzouny of WATC said with regard to ending the practice of honor killings, "Nothing can be done by legislation; there has to be awareness in the community." The sense of the honor code in general and what is considered to violate it has evolved in recent years, according to Lisa Taraki. "Many infringements of the honor code are solved in other ways, such as through elopement or marriage."

As a result of NGO efforts, the media's publicizing of honor killings has begun to raise the issue in public forums and make it a matter of public debate. Last spring, the Palestinian press reported on a four-year-old girl who was raped by a 25-year-old man and left to bleed to death by her family because she had "dishonored" her family. The child survived, but her "honor" is marred for life.

The WATC has also brought discussion of honor crimes to newspapers, its radio show and its newsletter. The group publicized the recent honor killing of a woman from the Ramallah area, referring to her as a "martyr" of her society, thereby seeking to promote a redefinition of the "dishonorable" woman's status. The women's movement has incorporated the issue of honor killings into its wider and less sensitive campaign to reduce violence against women. Last December, a coalition of WATC-led organizations secured an official PLC condemnation of domestic violence.

Palestinians increasingly acknowledge that sexual abuse, including incest and rape, occurs in Palestinian society. Safa Tamish, who is affiliated with the Tamer Institute for Community Education, has been pioneering research on Palestinian sexuality for several years. Acknowledging her work, the Ministry of Education recently agreed to train its 270 counselors in sex education. In time, Tamish's work may serve as a foundation upon which sex education may be introduced into the Palestinian curriculum.

Within a broader sociological context, a number of trends have been redefining the honor code, independent of efforts exerted by individuals, the women's movement or officials within the PNA. In Palestinian Society, published by Birzeit University's Women's Studies Program, Lisa Taraki tentatively suggests that the patriarchal nature of Palestinian society could be undergoing a redefinition due to socioeconomic changes, such as the growth of employment prospects for women, the rising age of marriage, rising educational levels for women and the break up of the extended family. The latter change, Sharif Kanaana believes, is the means most likely to decrease the rate of honor killings. "What needs to come first is a system that changes relations between people, especially within families."

Suzanne Ruggi is a staff reporter for The Jerusalem Times.

merip.org

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To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70910)10/24/2003 8:56:17 AM
From: average joe
   of 70976
 
Honour killing' father begins sentence

Heshu Yones was repeatedly stabbed by her own father
A Muslim man is beginning a life sentence for murdering his daughter because he disapproved of her Christian boyfriend.
Abdullah Yones admitted stabbing 16-year-old Heshu to death at their home in Acton, west London.

The Old Bailey heard Kurdish Abdalla Yones, 48, murdered Heshu on 12 October 2002 because he feared she was becoming westernised.

He pleaded for the court to pass the death sentence on him for his "appalling" crime after he tried to take his own life.

'Strong punch'

Heshu, who was described as popular and fun-loving, planned to run away from home after starting a relationship with an 18-year-old Lebanese teacher.

In a letter to her parents, apparently showing she planned to run away, Heshu wrote: "Bye Dad, sorry I was so much trouble.

"Me and you will probably never understand each other, but I'm sorry I wasn't what you wanted, but there's some things you can't change.

"Hey, for an older man you have a good strong punch and kick.

"I hope you enjoyed testing your strength on me, it was fun being on the receiving end. Well done."

Yones was a political refugee who fled Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq 10 years ago.

Cut his throat

The court heard that after repeatedly stabbing his daughter and slitting her throat, he cut his own throat and jumped from a third floor balcony.

Scotland Yard described it as a "brutal honour killing" - a reference to the practice of women being killed by male relatives to redeem the family name.

Heshu's father Abdalla cut his own throat after killing his daughter.

Detective Inspector Brent Hyatt said: "There was nothing, nothing at all 'honourable' about her murder.

"After hacking his daughter to death, Mr Yones has attempted every defence, from psychiatric, and diminished responsibility to extreme provocation, in order to save his own skin."

He added that Yones first claimed al-Qaeda members had broken into the flat, murdered Heshu and then attacked him. He only admitted murdering her last Monday.

Yones's counsel, Icah Peart QC, said his client wanted to be sentenced to death.

Judge Neil Denison said Yones had tried to commit suicide twice but told him he would pass the only sentence he could for murder - life imprisonment.

This is, on any view, a tragic story arising out of irreconcilable cultural differences between traditional Kurdish values and the values of western society

"This is, on any view, a tragic story arising out of irreconcilable cultural differences between traditional Kurdish values and the values of western society."

But Scotland Yard warned the sentence should be a warning to those who condone or stay silent about the mistreatment of women in their communities.

Commander Andy Baker added: "Violence in the name of culture will not be tolerated. Murder in the name of honour will be punished by the severest penalties available in law."

Scotland Yard believe there were 12 'honour killings' in the UK last year and said they were not restricted to Muslims, but also occurred in Sikh and Christian families.

A specialist police unit is researching the practice but police say only a handful of people believed 'honour killings' were an appropriate cultural response.

Mr Baker said people who had tried to shield Abdalla Yones from police could now be investigated on suspicion of perverting the course of justice.

"We are completely satisfied that some members of the community, or his friends, tried to assist him in that cover-up," he said.

"It's not about one person committing the murder, it's about the few that acknowledge it and support it and are involved in it."

news.bbc.co.uk

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To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70910)10/24/2003 8:58:38 AM
From: average joe
   of 70976
 
google.ca

google.ca

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To: average joe who wrote (70913)10/24/2003 9:50:03 AM
From: Sun Tzu
   of 70976
 
Did you manage to find any numbers as to how many men were also killed as part of honor killing? It takes two to tango, so I imagine given the opportunity, the man would have been as dead, no?

On somewhat related note, my personal experience in Pakistan and Northern Africa has been that despite all this "honor" talk, women were easy if they knew they can get away with it.

Oh, and I almost forgot, provocation defence is entirely dependent on the emotional background of the defendant. And I think this means a good lawyer could present a reasonable case for it even in North America:

The current defence of provocation is governed by section 232 of the Criminal Code, under the heading "Murder reduced to manslaughter." It reads as follows:

232. (1) Culpable homicide that otherwise would be murder may be reduced to manslaughter if the person who committed it did so in the heat of passion caused by sudden provocation.

(2) A wrongful act or insult that is of such a nature as to be sufficient to deprive an ordinary person of the power of self-control is provocation for the purpose of this section if the accused acted on it on the sudden and before there was time for his passion to cool.

(3) For the purposes of this section, the questions
(a) whether a particular wrongful act or insult amounted to provocation, and
(b) whether the accused was deprived of the power of self-control by the provocation that he alleges he received, are questions of fact, but no one shall be deemed to have given provocation to another by doing anything he had a legal right to do, or by doing anything that the accused incited him to do in order to provide the accused with an excuse for causing death or bodily harm to any human being.

( 4) Culpable homicide that otherwise would be murder is not necessarily manslaughter by reason only that it was committed by a person who was being arrested illegally, but the fact that the illegality of the arrest was known to the accused may be evidence of provocation for the purpose of this section.

To summarize, in order for the defence of provocation to be applied successfully, four things must be established: that there was a "wrongful act or insult"; that such an act or insult would have deprived the "ordinary person" of self-control; that the accused did in fact act "in the heat of passion" as a result of that provocation; and that the accused acted "on the sudden" and before there was time for his or her passion to cool.

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To: Sun Tzu who wrote (70916)10/24/2003 10:53:21 AM
From: average joe
   of 70976
 
"my personal experience in Pakistan and Northern Africa has been that despite all this "honor" talk, women were easy if they knew they can get away with it."

Explain what you mean by "easy" and "get away with it".

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To: average joe who wrote (70917)10/24/2003 11:21:20 AM
From: Sun Tzu
   of 70976
 
They didn't seem to particularly give a damn how far they went with a stranger (or at least a foreign man) so long as they could maintain appearances and nobody in their community would find out.

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To: average joe who wrote (70915)10/24/2003 11:51:08 AM
From: Lazarus_Long
   of 70976
 
Thank you. I had put "honor killing" into google, but hadn't thought of the alternate British spelling "honour killing". Obviously they also are not impressed with this as just a cute and quaint custom onserved in faraway lands that they should simply tolerate. I have no doubt similar findings would emerge using the French, German, Swedish, Spanish, .... equivalent phrases.

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