| To: Qualified Opinion who wrote (42989) | 1/1/2013 11:10:32 PM | | From: Wayners | | | | They kicked the can. Should result in a debt downgrade.
By a vote of 257-167 the House has passed HR 8, the Tax Relief Extension Act, which the Senate passed early Tuesday morning by a vote of 89 to 8. The bill will now be sent to the President for his signature. The so-called "fiscal cliff" agreement had been negotiated Monday between Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and Vice President Joe Biden. The legislation keeps the Bush era tax cuts for individuals making less than $400,000 and couples making less that $450,000. It also makes permanent the fixes for the Alternative Minimum Tax and delays government spending cuts for two months. In the House 85 Republicans and 172 Democrats voted for the bill, while 151 Republicans and 16 Democrats voted against the bill. |
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| To: Joseph Silent who wrote (42991) | 1/1/2013 11:25:39 PM | | From: Wayners | | | | | I see no credible deficit reduction whatsover, in fact there is a credible deficit increase from giving unemployment out forever and ever. The video games sure produce a lot and they deserve it!. Everybody will buy tomorrow, followed by a devastating debt downgrade as promised by Fitch. |
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| To: Wayners who wrote (42992) | 1/1/2013 11:40:04 PM | | From: Joseph Silent | | | | I leave the convolutions and logic to you guys. But it should be clear that Fitch and S&P are as crooked as the
rest of 'em (or have you forgotten?) and markets go up in the face of downgrades, once the confusion has been used to someone's advantage.
Life's a Fitch to be on the wrong side of a hard-to-predict market. Logic doesn't have a great track record with prices. If it did, everything would be automated, and wires would come out of pointy-headed skulls. Now all that comes out is noise. Noise can be helpful. |
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| To: Wayners who wrote (42990) | 1/2/2013 12:09:12 AM | | From: FCom777 | | | | I'm frankly surprised that the House passed this. I figured the entire 'Cliff' was a hoax - and the master plan of both "parties" was to screw the taxpayer with massive tax hikes while being able to blame the other "party" for the impasse. Seemed like it was no coincidence that the country was split pretty close to 50/50 between the "parties". In that way, all the politicians win while the average guy on the street gets gouged. And the stupid taxpayers would have both been cheering for their 'side' - as they all get gored.
I thought it was a Masterful plan - but I guess I was being too cynical.
What they ought to do is consider making a structural change to the budget process itself to encourage fiscal constraint rather targeting specific cuts themselves. Rather than letting a single bill pass - all or nothing - they should open up a window of time after a budget bill's passage - say two to four weeks - where proposals to eliminate specific line items in the bill can be extracted - similar to a line item veto - but rather than give the power to the Executive Branch - leave the power in the House - and make it so that only 25 to 33 per cent of the votes -or so- are needed to approve the spending extraction proposal. A procedural change like that might be useful to eliminate a lot of the pork that always is embedded in the bill.
Fat chance though - politicians LOVE their pork ... that's why they spend tens of millions to get a job that 'pays' only a couple hundred thousand. But if I was wrong about the 'hoax' theory, maybe I'm wrong about this ... is it possible that SOMEONE on Capital Hill cares about their country? Nah ... fat chance ... |
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| To: FCom777 who wrote (42994) | 1/2/2013 12:14:26 AM | | From: Wayners | | | | | The end game when everybody knows we can't pay is a likely Constitututional Convention. We are beyond screwed if that ever happens. A new Constitution could easily cover everything the State Godheads desire without any limits at all. |
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| To: Wayners who wrote (42995) | 1/2/2013 12:45:14 AM | | From: FCom777 | | | | Not so sure about that ... as far as a new Constitutional Convention ...
I'd like to think that people are becoming more and more knowledgeable about how they are getting screwed by the Bankster Class. Although we have a ways to go ... seems like the trend regarding popular opinion vis a vis the Banksters is clear.
When the chit finally hits the fan - and the debt really becomes untenable - seems more likely that the people lash out against the Banksters and the Fed - kind of like the McCarthy hearings in the 50's or Watergate in the 70's - and they get stiffed with their so called Balance sheet and a majority of the debt is reneged upon.
I forget the article and section in the Consitution ... but there is verbage in there that states that Debt fraudulently incurred can be legally reneged upon. Although admittedly unlikely, I think that is more likely than a complete rewrite of the Constitution. The only way that that occurs is if Bankster powers continue to strengthen - and they get away with royally screwing all of us - in which case you would be 100% correct.
I prefer to believe in the public outcry scenario - history shows that this occurs a few to several times each century ... we are surely due ... |
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| To: FCom777 who wrote (42996) | 1/2/2013 1:05:38 AM | | From: Wayners | | | | | I don't think most voters have a clue, so hyped on video games, drugs, sex, alcohol, liberal media, and left wing profs and Hollywood movies that a new Constitution will appear to be great but puts all power in the State and higher. After that it's just simple enforcement of the "law". We've already seen the test case for this. The only way it was defeated was by overwhelming force from other Nation States. If there is only one State, where will overwhelming force come from? Unarmed citizens? |
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| To: Wayners who wrote (42997) | 1/2/2013 1:22:26 AM | | From: FCom777 | | | | I agree with you that most people do not have a clue ... although slow to change ... it seems like the inertia is clearly moving in the right direction.
Look at it in terms of numbers. How many constitute the privileged elite ? Five - ten thousand ? Compared to what ? 320 million ? How many weapons are in the general population ? Tens of millions? Probably more.
Viewed this way, it seems like the elite may find themselves in a precarious position. The irony is that their own security relies on the Rule of Law. Yet what do they do? They flaunt the Rule of Law. Fraud and corruption at high levels is rampant. They think they are being slick and clever - maneuvering the system for their own benefit. But the fact is they are in reality digging their own graves. Their greed will ultimately be their own undoing. |
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