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   PoliticsPolitics for Pros- moderated


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To: BlackDog777 who wrote (72675)9/22/2004 7:03:24 PM
From: one_less
   of 776747
 
I was booted for noting Chinu's dishonorable methods.

Here are some Chinu classics from the Vote Bush Out thread.

"Lying is OK in politics." (ChinuSFO)

"You fight evil with evil. Lying is perfectly OK" (ChinuSFO)

"Hey guy, I bloody hell lie. You can paint it anywhere, you can paint it on your ass, you can paint it anywhere. And I enjoy lying. I love it, it is my passtime,..." (ChinuSFO)

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To: TimF who wrote (72655)9/22/2004 7:09:01 PM
From: Nadine Carroll
   of 776747
 
My bad. It's "Altalena"

etzel.org.il

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To: gamesmistress who wrote (72659)9/22/2004 7:09:28 PM
From: Alan Smithee
   of 776747
 
Gina

Soup Al is here because things have gotten boring on the John F. Kerry for President thread.

He's just looking to stir the pot and create trouble.

The SI ignore feature works well on him.

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To: Ilaine who wrote (72678)9/22/2004 7:15:11 PM
From: Alan Smithee
   of 776747
 
Great list Cobalt.

Thanks for posting.

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To: Bridge Player who wrote (72668)9/22/2004 7:17:41 PM
From: SiouxPal
   of 776747
 
But I want to be loved.

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To: Captain Jack who wrote (72669)9/22/2004 7:19:30 PM
From: SiouxPal
   of 776747
 
Yeah that windsurfing thing is a piece of cake compared to George riding his bicycle. Karl pre-installed training wheels for the rest of the campaign.

Sioux

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To: unclewest who wrote (72674)9/22/2004 7:24:14 PM
From: John Carragher
   of 776747
 
mary Mapes... fox broke another story i have not seen here yet. seems she was caught in a phone conversation with a prisoner in a state or federal prison making arrangement for him to mail a letter to cbs legal department.(legal letters go out unopen i assume) Mary mapes said she would intercept the letter and mail it back to the prison to another prisoner who was not to get mail. address would be from cbs legal department.

warden caught her violating laws , wrote to her and cbs excutives and said her rights to contact prisoner or write letters were suspended....

Appears this woman has no regard for the law , would break laws to get a story. She should not be working. What kind of excutives work at CBS? Does this organization have no values what so ever?

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To: gamesmistress who wrote (72659)9/22/2004 7:26:26 PM
From: SiouxPal
   of 776747
 
I hope not also. Did you see Joe Biden on Hardball a few minutes ago? What do you think of his opinions?

Sioux

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To: SiouxPal who wrote (72689)9/22/2004 7:27:31 PM
From: John Carragher
   of 776747
 
CBS's Corporate Board Has Close Ties to Democrats

As CBS launches an alleged probe into the circumstances surrounding the forged documents case, questions are being raised about the impartiality of the network's investigation given the political affiliations of some of the members of the board of directors of Viacom, the parent company that owns the network.

Noting that corporate governance experts say the directors of Viacom have no choice but to take a key role in probing CBS's use of fake documents about President Bush's military record, the New York Sun reported Tuesday that the political leanings of Viacom's board has raised new concerns.

The paper reviewed the political leanings and contribution history of the Viacom board and the company's senior management.

The Sun notes that Viacom's chairman and chief executive, Sumner Redstone, for example, is a self-described "liberal Democrat" who has been "a prolific donor to Democratic campaigns."

Moreover, of Viacom's 13 board members, fully eight contribute primarily to Democratic candidates and party committees, while another two other members of the board, Joseph Califano and William Cohen, both held Cabinet posts under Democratic presidents.

"The board needs to be involved, so to speak, prophylactically," a business ethics specialist at the Conference Board, Ronald Berenbeim, told the Sun

"The exposure to risk for Viacom, even though CBS News is just one of many things that it owns, is very substantial," he said. "There's substantial risk to a major business operation for which they have ultimate oversight and responsibility."

An attorney experienced in conducting the kind of independent investigation CBS has been said to have launched says the board members have a duty to make sure CBS's reputation is not tarnished any more than it already has been.

"Dan Rather is obviously an important person. He's part of the brand," lawyer Jeffrey Kaplan of Skillman, N.J., told the Sun. "A board's duty in this situation is somewhat uncertain because the facts are so unique. But at a minimum, given what's at stake for CBS, the board would want to be involved in this to ensure the independence and the professionalism of the investigation to be conducted, because if that doesn't happen then this asset of great value to the Viacom shareholder, meaning CBS, could be imperiled."

Viacom spokesman Carl Folta told the Sun the board has not discussed the forged-documents flap and is unlikely to do so. "They have not had any deliberations on this, board deliberations, and as a board are not handling the situation, which is being handled totally at the news level by CBS," he said. "At Viacom, we just don't get involved in the news division."

He added that the political contributions of board members were not unusual. "As private citizens, board members at Viacom and others make donations to political parties and candidates all the time," he said, avoiding the question of why the overwhelming preponderance of their donations end up in liberal Democrat campaign kitties.

But Viacom's critics insist that Sumner Redstone, who has been running Viacom for nearly 20 years, set the liberal course at CBS that led to the fake document debacle.

"Why did Dan Rather think he could get away with this or stonewall it? You look at Sumner Redstone's political contributions," Cliff Kincaid of the conservative press watchdog group Accuracy in Media, asked the Sun. "It's clear he's a major donor to the Democratic Party."

In the past six years, Redstone has given $50,000 to Democratic campaigns and party committees, according to filings with the Federal Election Commission. He gave the maximum $2,000 to Kerry's presidential campaign and supported Vice President Gore's 2000 presidential bid as well.

The only Republican candidates the Viacom chief has supported directly are Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, to whom he gave $2,000, and Sen. John McCain of Arizona, who received $1,000 from him. Redstone also made donations to a Viacom political action committee that splits its donations fairly evenly between the parties.

"Rather must have felt comfortable, not only because this is his bias but because he knew the parent company was comfortable with this kind of frontal attack on Bush," said Kincaid, whose group the Sun says has tangled with CBS for years about its liberal-leaning news and entertainment programming.

Redstone's daughter and possible successor, Shari, has given exclusively to Democrats in recent years, though not as prolifically as her father. She has contributed to Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, as well as to the Democratic National Committee, the Sun reported.

According to the Sun, other donors to the Democrats on the Viacom board include two Boston attorneys, George Abrams and David Andelman; a Manhattan investor, Philippe Dauman; the chairman of Bear Stearns, Alan Greenberg; a law professor at Yeshiva University, William Schwartz, and the president of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Patricia Stonesifer.

In July, Leslie Moonves and Thomas Freston replaced Mel Karmazin, a prolific Democratic donor, as chief operating officers of Viacom. In the 2000 presidential campaign Moonves, who oversees CBS, gave $1,000 each to Al Gore and Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut.

Freston, who the Sun reports is a "regular presence at Democratic fund-raising events in New York," kicked in $2,000 to John Kerry's campaign and also has given nearly $30,000 to Democratic groups and candidates in the past six years.

A business professor at Columbia Universtiy, Meyer Feldberg, told the Sun that he doubted the Viacom board members would jeopardize the company to advance their own political views.

"Redstone runs an incredibly outstanding organization," Feldberg argued. "I'm very sure that the chairman and CEO would not allow the board of the company to be compromised by individual political agendas."

He added that he doesn't expect the directors to take formal action in connection with the scandal, but he said he could not imagine they would ignore it.

"In this particular case, because of the personalities involved and the issue, it's like the elephant in the tent," he said.

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To: LindyBill who started this subject9/22/2004 7:29:41 PM
From: Nadine Carroll
   of 776747
 
Touted National Intelligence Estimate Out of Date
by Austin Bay

September 21, 2004

The "new" national intelligence estimate touted last week by The New York Times is drastically out of date.

According to the Times, the report from the National Intelligence Council "outlines three possibilities for Iraq through the end of 2005, with the worst case being developments that could lead to civil war."

Wake up the Beltway bureaucrats: The Iraqi civil war started in summer 2003, when a group hard-core Baath (and Sunni-dominated) holdouts decided their route to personal survival -- and possible track back to power in Baghdad -- was relentlessly savage violence.

Savage violence is the daily routine of the criminal gangs who run dictatorships large and small, so virtually everyone expected some degree of post-Saddam thug resistance. However, no one knew the Baath hardcore had so much money.

The biggest mistake the Iraq coalition made, however, was underestimating the power of criminal arrogance. That's a mistake we Americans make repeatedly -- whether the thug is Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam, Osama bin Laden or one of our own mob chieftains like John Gotti.

First the money: Saddam stole billions. How much of the trove remains? I don't think the Swiss, Persian Gulf and Asian bankers who helped him stash it know. Recall the crisp $600 million U.S. soldiers found in a building in Baghdad. No doubt stockpiles of Baathist cash remain hidden in Iraq and elsewhere in the region.

The Baghdad rumor mill says Baath warlords pay bombers anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 per attack, so even a million dollars can buy a lot of bang. It also buys TV time. The thousands of trucks that successfully deliver goods in Iraq don't make CNN. The one that the mercenary bomber blew to bits does.

It's a strategic weakness every PR operative knows: TV demands drama. TV magnifies the thug's bomb.

And it also feeds the arrogance of criminal elites who never believe they'll be held accountable for their crimes. Here's an example of that arrogance: In late August, Iraqi cops and Coalition forces cornered one Ahmad T. Tahir (also known as Mohammad Bogy) at the wake of a man that Tahir murdered. Tahir used to work for Saddam's regime (possibly as an "enforcer").

When the police arrived, Tahir tried to flee into his victim's house and even tried to hide behind the daughters and wife of his victim. But the women began slapping Tahir and shoved him toward the security troops, who then arrested him. The women told the police that "he (Tahir) didn't think we could do anything to him, and that's why he was here." In street slang, Mohammad Bogy was strutting his stuff because he believed the fear he instilled put him beyond any law.

Thug arrogance is an all-too common feature of the world's hard corners, where the criminals have dominated for so long they are certain their iron wills and unmitigated violence will eventually cow all opponents. Scholarly strategists describe war as a clash of wills. The world's Mohammad Bogys have a lot of willpower -- and all too often it only breaks when Free World troops jam a rifle barrel into the cold amazement of their eyes.

"The Shia are sheep," is an Iraqi Sunni refrain. "The (Baath holdout) Sunnis say they've been in charge and they intend to stay in charge (in Iraq)," a U.S. analyst told me in July 2004. While the Sunni resistance isn't tribal in any strict sense, "... it's like our tribe always beats your tribe. If they just continue to do what they've always done (i.e., murder wantonly), eventually they prevail. That's what they think will win this (civil conflict) for them."

However, every month that passes the new Iraqi central government gets stronger. Prime Minister Iyad Allawi (a Shia) has proven he isn't a sheep.

When does arrogance turn to desperation?

I don't know -- perhaps Mohammad Bogy could give us an opinion. I do know the Baath thugs are attempting to manipulate the U.S. political cycle. If they continue to murder, they believe America will wilt and leave the new Iraqi government in the lurch.
strategypage.com

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