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   PoliticsPolitics for Pros- moderated

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To: LindyBill who wrote (148622)11/24/2005 7:41:04 PM
From: D. Long
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I just remembered that you posted about wanting to buy an X-Box

Must be thinking of someone else - I'm not a console fan. There are a select few PC games that I enjoy playing though, mostly strategy games. I do like Quake and Half Life, too.


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To: LindyBill who wrote (148618)11/24/2005 7:48:46 PM
From: Alan Smithee
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EU May Stop Providing US-Bound Air Passenger Information

Let's see how long it takes them to come around after Homeland Security says that Air France, Sabena, SAS, Lufthansa, etc. has been denied landing rights.

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To: D. Long who wrote (148620)11/24/2005 7:51:04 PM
From: Alan Smithee
   of 764547
Every year has its "Cabbage Patch Doll".

Or Power Rangers.

I recall they were very big about 10 years ago.

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To: LindyBill who wrote (148622)11/24/2005 7:52:07 PM
From: Alan Smithee
   of 764547
I just remembered that you posted about wanting to buy an X-Box. I am sure some of my grandchildren are getting one for Christmas.

I'd hold out for the Play Station 3.

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To: greenspirit who wrote (148599)11/24/2005 8:01:25 PM
From: Thomas A Watson
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Gee Mike, I never ever interfere with my wife when she decides to climb a latter for any reason. I'm still working getting her to use tools beyond the drill. I don't get it, she's great with the chain saw, but seems reluctant with the sabre or skil or table saw. But my daughter is the real problem. She seems to always being borrowing my ladders and my tools. Then she buys her own and packs mine away somewhere and forgets about them. I now have two of everything and she has all her own.

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To: Lane3 who wrote (148646)11/24/2005 8:02:21 PM
From: Nadine Carroll
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I explain that by judging that they read things differently from how I read them due to our disparate predispositions. That explanation makes a lot of sense to me. The only alternative explanations I could come up with are much less flattering to them than the one I have chosen

I can think of another. They knew more about the situation than you do - or not to point fingers at you, than anybody who mainly gets his/her news from the MSM. The MSM has spent many years spiking most of the bad news from the Middle East, leaving what they do report open to politicized interpretation.

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From: Nadine Carroll11/24/2005 8:04:13 PM
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Another take on Sharon's split from the Likud:

It's the Economy, Stupid!
by Yisrael Ne'eman

PM Ariel Sharon's break off centrist party may technically be only "in the making" but widespread support can be expected for its pragmatic agenda. Sharon and much of the Israeli public are completely fed up with the Palestinians and do not believe there can be a negotiated peace with any representatives from the land of chaos, anarchy, terrorism, Palestinian Authority corruption, the Hamas, the Al-Aksa Brigades and the Islamic Jihad. Sharon is seeking to unilaterally marginalize the conflict, letting the army and security forces handle the Palestinians on a daily basis while he gets on with more important issues. Were it up to Arik (and many Israelis) he would draw the borders, finish building the fence, remove settlements (or "disengage") from areas not to be held by Israel and move all security issues to the perimeter of the Israeli national agenda. Just let the army deal.

Israelis feel much safer today and would like to finish the job by being "separated" from the Palestinians. After five long years and disillusionment with the "Oslo Left" and the "Greater Land of Israel Right" people are looking for a positive challenge and a better future. The new center will seek to put both the Palestinians and the right wing settler movement behind them. No more distractions.

Both Labor and Likud in the 1990s sought to rebuild the economy. Tourism was to account for 10 - 15% of the GNP and was expected to grow, especially as the millennial year of 2000 approached. Israel's technology industries were expanding and were expected to lead the country into a solid First World position. Many spoke of the Jewish State as the R & D center of the world, enjoying trade relations with both the EU and the dollar bloc. Plans were set into motion for massive agricultural development in the Negev with Beersheva serving as the frontier boom town and possibly the largest future urban center in the country.

In 2000 all of these projects were put on hold as Israel confronted the Palestinian Terror Offensive. Today the country is getting back on track, but without the Oslo illusion (delusion?). Increased security guarantees tourism and the foreign investment necessary to realize a technologically driven economy. Water development through recycling, desalinization and damns trapping desert flood waters will bring Israel to a serious water surplus of up to 50% by 2010, a far cry from the droughts and shortages of the early 1990s.

The country is "getting ready for take-off" and expectations are rising. If Labor's Amir Peretz is making his pitch to the lower classes, Sharon will appeal to the middle and upper middle eschelons of society. His appeal will be for a renewed Zionism, Ben Gurion style: work, invest, develop the country, especially the Negev.

After peeling away all the military and security bluster, Sharon's new party is really an economic initiative. Israelis do not leave the country due to security threats, but rather in search of economic opportunities. Recently Israel is suffering from a brain drain. A revived economy will be a blessing and an anecdote, but this time there will be an added dimension.

The PM, the Negev ranchman, knows the potential of the south and will capitalize on the reported $5 billion in loans and grants offered by the US as a springboard for its development. The World Zionist Organization and Jewish organizations have already been primed to work in this direction over the past two years.

Sharon wants to leave the right wing ideologues behind and disentangle from the Palestinians. He hopes to challenge the public with nation building and turn the corner towards a more promising future. In his old age he apparently returning to his own youth of the 1950s and is appreciating the vision of the Old Man from Sde Boker more than ever before.

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To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (148652)11/24/2005 8:12:51 PM
From: Lane3
   of 764547
They knew more about the situation than you do

That's true and for a long time I hoped that was the explanation. But the things where they have already been shown to be incorrect have piled up so I no longer think that likely although it's still possible longer term.

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To: Lane3 who wrote (148645)11/24/2005 8:22:43 PM
From: LindyBill
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Don't worry. I don't plan on going there nor to I plan to allow anyone to drag me.

I'm not worried. Go there if you want. When you started out on this discussion, I posted that all the info backed up everything Bush said. That is really not disputable. You may think that he pushed it too much. So what?

I look at it this way. Since 911, we have freed fifteen million Afghans and thirty five million Iraqis. To me, it's worth the blood and treasure we have spent to accomplish that.

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From: LindyBill11/24/2005 8:29:07 PM
   of 764547
US reveals details of Iran's nuclear ambition
By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor

Britain and key European allies are using intelligence briefings to convince major powers that Iran is trying to develop nuclear warheads for its Shahab-3 missiles.

The Shahab 3, displayed at a Teheran military parade in September with slogans such as "We will crush America under our feet", has a range of at least 810 miles and is capable of reaching Israel, Turkey, Russia and India.

Aware of the damage done by Downing Street's dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be non-existent, European governments have been careful not to go public with the information.

But in private sessions ahead of today's meeting of the governing board of the International Atomic Energy Agency, European officials are stressing they believe US intelligence provides strong evidence of Teheran's determination to build an atomic bomb.

US officials have in recent months shared with experts from the IAEA and other countries classified details of tens of thousands of pages of technical information recovered from a stolen Iranian laptop.

The documents, written in Farsi and obtained last year, are said to reveal experiments with warhead designs characteristic of nuclear devices.

But several countries are treating any US intelligence claim with suspicion, prompting Britain, France and Germany - the so-called EU-3 countries that have led the nuclear negotiations with Iran - to join the US lobbying effort.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"The Europeans' assessment is very close to that of the Americans," said a western source. "They have gone through all the possibilities - conventional, chemical or biological weapons. But the designs only make sense if they are intended for a nuclear warhead."

According to leaks in US papers, the documents include telltale details such as a sphere of detonators of conventional explosives, used to compress fissile material to trigger a nuclear reaction.

Iran insists that it wants to build nuclear reactors to generate electricity.

But the IAEA says that Iran has failed to co-operate fully with its inspectors after they discovered in 2003 that Iran had lied about its activities.

Until now attention has focused on Iran's uranium enrichment programme, supposedly intended to produce nuclear fuel. But more recent evidence appears to point to Iran's interest in weapons design. In its latest report, the IAEA revealed that Iran had surrendered a document on how to cast uranium into hemispheres.

Iran said the document was "unsolicited", and had been included with other technical material bought from the nuclear black market.

European officials say the revelation was one of several "own goals" by an increasingly radical Iranian regime.

Its hardline new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, provoked international outrage last month after declaring that Israel "should be wiped off the map". The European briefings are part of a diplomatic campaign to draw influential members of the IAEA board - such as Russia, China, India and South Africa - into a more united front to curb Iran's nuclear programme.

In September, their opposition stopped western countries from pushing the IAEA board to report Iran to the Security Council for possible sanctions. Instead, the board voted on a resolution declaring Iran to be in "non compliance" with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

23 November 2005: Iran would pose 'serious threat' if it had nuclear weapons
20 November 2005: Bush backs offer that would allow Teheran to enrich uranium in Russia

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