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   PoliticsWorld Affairs Discussion

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To: ChinuSFO who wrote (3899)5/25/2004 8:33:57 AM
From: Ben Wa
   of 3959
In texbooks dealing with the topic of abnormal psychology, there are before and after photos of ChinuSFO. Are the meds wearing off?

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To: Ben Wa who wrote (3901)5/25/2004 8:59:01 AM
From: ChinuSFO
   of 3959
I don't think you read the posts.

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To: ChinuSFO who wrote (3902)9/22/2004 4:02:13 AM
   of 3959
In 1683 Turkey was the invader. In 2004 much of Europe still sees it that way

As one of the EU's biggest decisions nears, old prejudices are coming to the fore

Ian Traynor in Vienna

Wednesday September 22, 2004
The Guardian

Sipping red wine on a hillside terrace high above Vienna, Helmut pointed to the Polish church next door, convinced that the epic drama played out here in 1683 still spoke to central Europeans down the centuries.

"I know one Turkish bloke," said the Viennese social worker. "He's got two wives. Neither of them can speak a word of German. He beats them up. He's got two sons as well. They're terrified of him. They're just different from us. We're Christians. They're Muslims. And these Muslims are getting more and more extreme. It's time to make a choice. I'm against it."

What Helmut is against, like two out of three Austrians, is Turkey joining the European Union. Gerhard, the landlord serving him his wine, joined in eagerly. "This is Europe and we're in danger of losing our identity with all these people from Turkey and Africa. We Christians are losing our faith while the Muslims are getting more fundamentalist."


Neither man wanted to give his full name. Both were keen to dwell on history. The place they were sitting, a hillside north-east of Vienna, was where 321 years ago last week the Polish king, John III, after a plea from the Vatican, marshalled a huge Roman Catholic army and went galloping down the mountain to save Christendom, Europe and Austria, routing the Turks, raising the 61-day Ottoman siege of Vienna, and halting the Turkish advance into the European heartland.

The legacy of the Turkish attempt to take the Hapsburg capital includes the greatest of Viennese institutions, the coffee house, for the Turks brought the bean to Austria, as well as a dread of the Muslim invader that is branded into folk memories across large swaths of central Europe and the Balkans.

In neighbouring Hungary, which was under the Turks for 150 years, the national gallery near Buda castle is dominated by a giant canvas illustrating the mass slaughter that accompanied the fall of the town of Szigetvar to the Turks in 1556.

When the Serbian general Ratko Mladic supervised the massacre of 7,000 Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica in 1995, he relished the mass murder as Serbian revenge.

Slovenia, the poster boy of post-Yugoslav success, is integrated into the EU and Nato as a stable and prosperous democracy. But the uglier, intolerant aspect is that Ljubljana is the sole EU capital city without a mosque. For decades, Slovene Catholics have thwarted attempts by the country's 50,000-strong Muslim community to build a mosque, although the constitutional court earlier this year finally threw out demands for a referendum that would have banned building one.

Turkey's Islamist prime minister, Tayyip Erdogan, goes to Brussels tomorrow to argue for Ankara's seat at the EU table. An EU commission report in two weeks will set the scene for a formal EU summit decision in December on whether Turkey will be admitted to talks to join the union.

And as crunch time nears for one of the EU's biggest-ever decisions, Turkophobia is sweeping the region, deep-seated European prejudice is showing its true colours, and political elites are panicking.

Deliberately recalling the "clash of civilisations" of 300 years ago, the liberal Viennese news weekly Profil this week headlined its editorial The Turks at the Gates of Vienna, contending that Turkey's accession was "not so much a risk as a danger".

The outgoing Dutch European commissioner, Frits Bolkestein, delivered his parting shot a fortnight ago by warning of the "Islamisation of Europe" should Turkey join the union. "The relief of Vienna in 1683 will have been in vain," he declared.

The outgoing Austrian commissioner, Franz Fischler, stirred up more strong feeling by asserting that broad anti-Turkish public opinion across the EU should not be ignored. "The EU can't just be a construct of diplomats."

In Germany last week, the opposition Christian Democrat leader, Angela Merkel, who bids fair to be the next chancellor of the EU's biggest power, came out categorically against Turkish membership, urging all her fellow centre-right leaders in the EU to form an anti-Turkish bloc.

In Austria, the far-right leader and chief mischief maker, Jörg Haider, is threatening to bring down the centre-right government if it gives a green light to Turkish entry talks. The government is in any case against, as are the opposition social democrats.

Austrian opinion polls show two-thirds against admitting Turkey and only one in five in favour. In Germany, home to 2.5 million Turks, the country's biggest ethnic minority, a poll last week showed 55% against Turkey joining.


A detailed survey of public opinion in Europe and the US, published last week by the German Marshall Fund of the US, found Europeans deeply confused at the prospect of a Muslim country of 70 million joining the union. A pan-European survey issued last week found that 40% were not sure whether Turkey's membership was good or bad.

"Many Europeans are ambivalent," the survey noted. "Although there is no European consensus on Turkey's membership, the fact that many Europeans have not made up their minds creates the prospect for a constructive debate in Europe over Turkey's future."

In France, meanwhile, the polls show a slim majority in favour of Turkey joining "eventually" despite strong opposition from much of the French elite.

Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, the architect of the new European constitution, which some claim is specifically designed to keep Turkey out, said last year that Turkish membership would signal "the end of the EU". Turkey was "not a European country". It had "a different culture, a different approach, and a different way of life".

Both France's President Jacques Chirac and Germany's Chancellor Gerhard Schröder support Turkey's bid. Turkish membership is even more strongly supported by Britain.

Amid the fears, the Poles, eternally proud of saving Christendom from Islam in 1683, are magnanimous in victory. The Polish priest tending the Vienna church dedicated to the raising of the siege says: "Back then, the Turks had to be defeated. It was necessary. Now it's different. We need to be all one big family. Of course Turkey is European. Of course they should be in the EU."


Britain, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Ireland


Austria, Luxembourg


Germany (government for, opposition and public opinion against), France, Denmark, Hungary, Greece (government for, public opinion strongly against), Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Slovenia, Cyprus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia

Additional reporting: Jon Henley in Paris

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To: monkey's uncle who wrote (3875)10/2/2004 5:52:09 AM
   of 3959
Told you so... (*)

Dr. C.S. Prakash, an Indian-born scientist whose research has increased the nutritional value of the sweet potato fourfold, told the conference that half of sub-Saharan Africans are malnourished today, a figure that is expected to increase to 70 percent by 2010. He said that world population growth has reduced the amount of arable land, making greater agricultural productivity a necessity: "We must produce more food with less land, less water and less chemicals."

Biotechnology can do this.

The best assessment of biotechnology's potential came from farmers themselves. Sabina Khoza, a South African maize farmer, and Edwin Paraluman, a corn farmer in the Philippines, told us that their yields and incomes are up, and their use of harmful pesticides is down.

Unfortunately, the ability of farmers such as Khoza and Paraluman to take advantage of this new tool has been severely restricted in many countries by widespread resistance based upon misinformation about biotechnology safety - misinformation sown by ideologically motivated groups and nurtured by EU trade protectionists [aka agroLuddites].

These critics continue to claim that biotech foods are unsafe despite the fact that millions of Americans, Canadians, Australians, Argentines and other people have been eating genetically modified food for nearly a decade - without one proven case of an illness, allergic reaction or even the hiccups.

Activists even convinced African governments facing drought-induced famine in late 2002 to return tons of World Food Program corn because it was produced in America using biotechnology. Better to die than eat the food that Americans eat every day.

For those who question the morality of biotechnology, suggesting that it is unnatural, the scientists pointed out that mankind has been genetically altering food throughout human history. In fact, almost none of the foods we consider "natural" today exist in nature; all have been genetically modified for human use.

(*) Message 18057233
Message 18023542
Message 18085049
Message 17922091

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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3904)10/2/2004 9:41:14 AM
From: rrufff
   of 3959
Do I have this right?

9/11 was a conspiracy amongst France, US, Russia and Israel.

Russia provides Iran with nuclear material so the US and Israel will invade Iran.

Iraq was "invaded" to save a nickel a gallon at the cost of $200 billion.

Yet - on the other hand - there is no conspiracy to control the world's food supply with cancer causing GMO products.

Hmmmmm - Also there is no conspiracy to change words in quoted passages to place blame and to point fingers at certain religions.

Message 19938446

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To: rrufff who wrote (3905)10/4/2004 3:49:49 AM
   of 3959
Re: Do I have this right?

9/11 was a conspiracy amongst France, US, Russia and Israel.

Scratch the French.

Re: Russia provides Iran with nuclear material so the US and Israel will invade Iran.

Sort of.

Re: Iraq was "invaded" to save a nickel a gallon at the cost of $200 billion.

Nope... Iraq was invaded to fulfill the encirclement of Iran by US troops.

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To: rrufff who wrote (3905)10/4/2004 3:59:24 AM
   of 3959
Re: ...I've posted to a couple of cowering posters whose only agenda seems to be to blame everything on Jews, that is, everything from their own inferiority to...

Excerpted from that post of yours:
Message 19939269

So, Jews are "superior"?! But tell me, how come your "God-given superiority" didn't help you back in 1930s Germany? To be sure, a "superior race" ought to have easily thwarted any scheme by benighted Nazi barbarians...

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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3907)10/4/2004 4:06:32 AM
From: RMF
   of 3959
I'm sure that if YOU had been a Jew in 1930s Germany everything would have turned out differently...ROTF

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To: RMF who wrote (3908)10/4/2004 4:38:05 AM
   of 3959

Anyone you know?

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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3909)10/4/2004 4:53:44 AM
From: RMF
   of 3959
No, but I have seen pictures of the Nazi whores of Belgium.

Was your Mom photogenic?

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