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To: blind alley racer who wrote (1766)9/1/2002 8:32:40 PM
From: Brumar89
   of 3959
Actually the Egyptian limo driver was a terrorist. The JDL guy and that other Jewish guy in Florida are fortunately terrorist wannabes. Which is a bad thing.

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To: blind alley racer who wrote (1764)9/1/2002 11:29:01 PM
From: lorne
   of 3959
len. In an article I posted was this statement...." "They found that 48 percent of respondents agreed the government should have the freedom to monitor religious groups in the interest of national security — even if that means infringing upon the religious freedom of the group's members. Forty-two percent said the government should have more authority to monitor Muslims.".....

I did not write this article why don't you question the motives of whom ever wrote this article instead of getting all pi**ed of and asking stupid questions like this one......" By the way, why hide behind a false SI name? Are you paranoid?".....

First of all it is not a false name it is my real name.

Am I paranoid. No I am not and what do these stupid question have to do with the article I posted.

The point I was making is that if censorship of free speech should ever happen then it could affect what you and people like you who appear to be supporters of our enemies can say on a public forum.

What I and others like me who do not show favor for or appear to support the enemy are not the cause of any restriction that may happen in the future to free speech.

If you feel that the article I posted is directed at you then I can see why you are so upset.

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To: Thomas M. who wrote (1759)9/1/2002 11:37:44 PM
From: lorne
   of 3959
You said...." And there was never an Israeli state."....

Sure there was. Don't you remember when I proved this to you a few months back?

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To: lorne who wrote (1771)9/2/2002 3:14:23 AM
From: Andy Thomas
   of 3959
i see you listed me as supporting an enemy... is that really what you think i've been doing?

if so, would that be foreign or domestic enemies?

it is simply to me that so much of what is going on seems so strange... like the official story really doesn't wash any more... so is my questioning any of that... does that make me an enemy of the united states? if that is the case then perhaps the 'terrorists' have won already...

again, if you take away freedom of speech, the terrorists have already won... for then what is it that we are protecting?

if you want to nuke or gas or steamroll somebody... go for it! i for one am getting sick of all of the posturing... you want to steamroll iraq and saudi arabia... let's go then!

if we win easily, then perhaps the economy surges with the advent of cheap oil... perhaps on the other hand it is world war iii... either one is fine with me.... i know it's not 'all good' but i know it's 'all god...'

and in any event the white house - and all other positions of high office within any of the myriad 'priesthoods'... they're all charades... and if that makes me un-american then i'll live and die with that.....

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To: epsteinbd who wrote (1746)9/2/2002 3:39:57 AM
   of 3959
Re: Now if you could link us to pictures that show the Israelis "non fortified silos" as compared to Iranian "fortifies silos"... I could start to give it some reality.

Haha! That's a PREMIUM service!! You still have my Swiss bank account, haven't you? Wire $1,000/pic --Enlarged pics of Israeli facilities are also available (which allow you to measure the personel's stress by counting the butts on the ground)... There's an Iranian fellow who's ready to buy them all --with an exclusivity bonus! So, don't delay!!!

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To: Andy Thomas who wrote (1773)9/2/2002 3:49:16 AM
   of 3959
Re: it is simply to me that so much of what is going on seems so strange... like the official story really doesn't wash any more... so is my questioning any of that... does that make me an enemy of the united states? if that is the case then perhaps the 'terrorists' have won already...

again, if you take away freedom of speech, the terrorists have already won... for then what is it that we are protecting?

You end up protecting freedom of speech for Judeofascists ONLY.


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To: Andy Thomas who wrote (1773)9/2/2002 10:30:35 AM
From: lorne
   of 3959
Andy. You said...." i see you listed me as supporting an enemy... is that really what you think i've been doing?"...

Andy. After having read through your most recent posts I would have to say I was mistaken. Although you appear at times to come out in support of those who wish to do us harm ( us is the civilized folks in the west ) you also appear to question everything and play no favorites. I apologize.

You are very confusing, maybe you should have gone into politics. :o)

When you say things like this....." man i loved it when they sold stingers to iran!
Message 17873756

It can lead a person to believe that you support a government who is our enemy.

Or this post...." if we removed the catholic church from latin america, everything would improve...
Message 17873759

Or this...." if you were saddam, you would do all of the same things... including cutting backroom deals with the clums... there is no other way...
Message 17876201

You said...." again, if you take away freedom of speech, the terrorists have already won... for then what is it that we are protecting?"....

I agree with you on that but if we do not fight back against those who want to remove our freedoms we will lose them anyways.

You said...." if you want to nuke or gas or steamroll somebody... go for it! i for one am getting sick of all of the posturing... you want to steamroll iraq and saudi arabia... let's go then!

if we win easily, then perhaps the economy surges with the advent of cheap oil... perhaps on the other hand it is world war iii... either one is fine with me.... i know it's not 'all good' but i know it's 'all god...'

I don't think we over here should wipe out the countries you mentioned but I do believe that certain elements of their society must be removed. I believe that radical islam is a real threat to our way of life and must somehow be stopped. What do you think would be the reaction of Americans if there should be just one more muslim/islam incident like Sept.11. what will happen to innocent muslims in America and other countries?

I also don't think this is about cheap oil, there is lots of oil available elsewhere. Islam has forced themselves on us and Sept.11 is proof of this force. islam is not one country so how do we fight back. Radical islam is in our countries now so how do we fight back, do we destroy our own peoples just so we can get to them? Not likely.

You said...." and in any event the white house - and all other positions of high office within any of the myriad 'priesthoods'... they're all charades... and if that makes me un-american then i'll live and die with that.....

Our way of life is not by any means perfect but I believe it is a whole lot better than the way of life of our enemies. Would you trust a muslim cleric before Prez. Bush
would they be more honest? Should we trust the islamic leaders of islam controlled countries to not try to force their muslim way of life on their neighbours, on Europe, on Indonesia, etc. On us. islam has spread by force for the last 1500 years and continues to this day, why should we believe that it will stop.

What we have may not be perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than the way of life of those who attacked us.

Look at Europe to day they are scared to death do anything at all to offend the millions and millions muslims who now live there.

We can all just forget about Sept.11 and hope the religious problem will go away but it will not go away unless we somehow make it go away.

I believe that when islam attacked the WTC on Sept.11 they were attacking our way of life, our freedoms, our wealth they attacked our people not our military power.

Nice music web site you have. will have to look it over didn't see any oldies there....50s & 60s rock.

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To: Spytrdr who wrote (1695)9/2/2002 10:37:31 AM
From: Spytrdr
   of 3959

<<Still struggling with Stalin

By Cathy Young, 8/26/2002

AS WE GRAPPLE with the problems and perils of the 21st century, the great debates of the 20th have not gone away. Some of the most contentious questions have to do with the history of Communism, whose unholy ghost continues to haunt us more than a decade after the demise of the Soviet Union. Was Communism as evil as Nazism? Did the Western left collude in its evil?

These issues are powerfully confronted by the British novelist Martin Amis in his new book ''Koba the Dread: Laughter and the Twenty Million.'' Koba was a nickname for Stalin, and the 20 million are the victims of Soviet terror.

Some of the most stirring pages in this short book chronicle Soviet crimes against humanity, many of them preceding Stalin - from catastrophic famines (caused by confiscation of grain from peasants) to mass executions to labor camps where millions lived, and often died, in hellish conditions. Much of this story will be familiar to those who have read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's ''The Gulag Archipelago'' or Robert Conquest's ''The Great Terror.''

But one of Amis's main points is that it's not familiar enough. Everybody knows of Auschwitz and Belsen, he writes. Nobody knows of Vorkuta and Solovetsky.

Writing in The Atlantic, Christopher Hitchens, who comes under some sharp criticism in ''Koba the Dread'' for his own flirtations with the left, challenges that statement as an insult to all those, including leftists, who have denounced and exposed Stalin's atrocities for at least the last 50 years. But it should be obvious that nobody, like everybody, is a hyperbolic figure of speech. What Amis means is that Soviet terror has not entered general consciousness, the consciousness of the average literate person, the way the Holocaust has. With a few obscure exceptions, it has not been dramatized on film or on TV. The name of Stalin does not viscerally evoke evil incarnate the way the name of Hitler does.

Amis concedes that regardless of overall body counts, Nazism's purposeful, systematic extermination of human beings based solely on their ethnicity was more evil and repugnant than Communism's more haphazard slaughter. But this tiny moral differential between the two regimes does not justify the vast gap in general awareness of their crimes - or the stark double standard in their public judgment.

Thus, Amis notes that at a 1999 public event in London, Hitchens's joking remark about his Communist past was received with affectionate laughter; a similar casual reference to one's past as a Nazi sympathizer would be unthinkable.

There is an even more striking example of this double standard that Amis does not mention. In 1996, a firestorm erupted over the scheduled publication of a biography of Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels by British Holocaust revisionist David Irving. After vehement protests, the publisher, St. Martin's Press, withdrew the book.

Around the same time, the Yale University Press published ''Life and Terror in Stalin's Russia, 1934-1941,'' by Miami (Ohio) University professor Robert Thurston, who argued that the death toll of Stalin's terror had been greatly exaggerated.

Thurston also asserted that Stalin never planned to rule by terror, he just reacted to events and let things spin out of control - ironically, much the same argument Irving makes about the Nazi murder of the Jews.

While the critical response to ''Life and Terror'' was generally negative, it sparked no outcry. In Publisher's Weekly, Irving's book was called repellent; Thurston's book, controversial.

Why the double standard? Unlike Nazism, Communism claimed to champion the noble ideals of equality, fairness, and brotherhood. To many well-meaning liberals and progressives, it was an expression of the enduring human hope for a good and just society; a nostalgic fondness for that hope, Amis argues, endures to this day. That's why, he says, Hitchens can still profess admiration for Lenin and Trotsky, who laid the foundations for Stalin's brutal police state. (In his essay, Hitchens evades Amis's blunt question: Do you admire terror?''

Today, the issues raised in ''Koba the Dread'' could be seen as purely academic; but they are not. The left's reluctance to acknowledge that Communism wasn't just a failure but an evil is due to more than stubbornness. Such an acknowledgment would amount to (1) validating a view of the West, Communism's Cold War adversary, as good (albeit imperfect), and (2) admitting that the left spent much of the 20th century cozying up to mass murderers and therefore has precious little moral authority to criticize the West today. And that's very relevant to present-day global conflicts.

Cathy Youngis a contributing editor at Reason magazine. Her column appears regularly in the Globe.

This story ran on page A11 of the Boston Globe on 8/26/2002.
© Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company.>>

here's ally 'Uncle Joe', paladin of freedom and democracy, with his 2 marionettes as they handle him almost all of Europe:

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To: Spytrdr who wrote (1777)9/2/2002 1:07:38 PM
From: lorne
   of 3959
Syria has allowed hundreds of Qaida men to settle in Lebanon

By Ze'ev Schiff
Damascus has allowed some 150-200 Qaida operatives to settle in the Palestinian refugee camp Ein Hilwe near Sidon in Lebanon. The group, including senior commanders, arrived from Afghanistan through Damascus, Iran and directly to Lebanon. These Qaida operatives are responsible, among other things, for the latest outbreak of fighting inside the refugee camp, as part of their effort to take over the camp.

These details and others have lately been gathered by various intelligence services.

Among the new details now known: Mohammed Atta, the leader of the Qaida group that conducted the Sept. 11 airplane suicide attacks on the Twin Towers in New York, flying the first plane into the towers, visited Syria twice or three times. The Syrians did not give that information to the Americans on their own volition.

Osama bin Laden's son, Omar, left Syria together with his mother Nagwa, three weeks before the attack on the Twin Towers, after receiving anonymous instructions to do so. The son returned to Syria after 9-11, and has since visited twice more. Bin Laden's wife and son lived in the Alawite stronghold in Latakiya in an arrangement that gave refuge to bin Laden's close relatives. The two are not now in Syria.

Intelligence services have also managed to find detailed information about contacts between one of the leading Hezbollah military figures, Imad Mourghniyeh, and a Qaida operative in Sudan. There is no evidence yet of that relationship developing into continuing ties, but there is no doubt the meeting could not have taken place without Syrian intelligence knowing of it.

Syrian prevarications

Much evidence now shows that before 9-11, Syria was a stomping ground for Qaida operatives, considered a place where they could move around in relative freedom. The country served as transit point for them and Qaida had an infrastructure there. They were able to operate with relatively few of the restrictions that other Arab countries, like Egypt, put on them.

After 9-11, the Syrians initially believed there would be no significant change in the geopolitical developments. Syrian President Bashar Assad told a Lebanese newspaper that "there is no sign that there has been any great change since September 11." He said that "there are ways" to stand up to the military and technological superiority of others. For example, the U.S. "has the most power, the best technology, and the strongest mechanisms, but it has not been able to provide security in its cities because force is not a necessary condition for providing security and stability."

Therefore, said Assad, "the current developments require serious judgment and sticking to basic principles. Following September 11, everything must be examined with better judgment especially when discussing the ramifications of what happened to our region."

Shortly afterward, as American rage grew and the attack on the Taliban in Afghanistan began, the Syrians changed position, and said they were ready for intelligence cooperation with the U.S. on the Qaida issue. But there are now clear indications that it was tactical and only partial cooperation.

Readiness for cooperation mostly came via information about Qaida cells in other countries and not what Qaida representatives were doing in Syria. Important information came from Syria, for example, on Qaida cells in Germany. That apparently is what kept Syria off President George W. Bush's "axis of evil" list.

Most of the Syrian information about Qaida activities in Germany came from the interrogation of a German citizen of Syrian descent, Mohammed Haider Zemer. He was questioned by Syrian intelligence before 9-11, and the Syrians were ready to hand him over to the Germans, who were not interested at the time.

But the Germans changed their minds after 9-11, after the Americans gave them the information provided by the Syrians, which led to information about Qaida operatives in Hamburg and elsewhere in Germany, including information about Mohammed Atta. The Germans then asked the Syrians to extradite Zemer so they could continue questioning him and put him on trial, but the Syrians refused, and refuse to do so to this day. Meanwhile, Zemer's passport was found in an apartment in Afghanistan that belonged to a senior Qaida commander.

Another link between Qaida and Syria can be found in the arrest in Spain of three Syrians. One says that Mohammed Atta met with another of the three in Spain. The three were found with videotapes of various possible targets in America, and they apparently served as an intelligence gathering cell for Atta before 9-11. One of those arrested, Mohammed Hirel Sak, is an Alawite. Another, Abarash Kaliyon, has been identified as a former member of the Islamic Brotherhood in Syria. The third, Abdel Rahman Arnot, has admitted he had links to the commander of the Qaida training camps of western Afghanistan. It is also known that Atta's phone number was found in the apartment of one of the Syrians arrested in Spain.

Meanwhile, the Syrians repeatedly changed their position since 9-11. Nowadays, they appear to be deliberately turning a blind eye to Qaida activity, particularly in Lebanon. A key question so far unanswered is what Atta was doing on his visits to Syria, and whom he met. It's known that he was in Aleppo in northern Syria, but it is not known whom he met. He was in Syria at least twice and possibly three times.

The change in Syrian attitudes can be seen in the permission they gave to Qaida men on the run from Afghanistan to find refuge in Lebanon, which is under control of the Syrian army and intelligence. After the defeat of the Taliban, Qaida began fleeing Afghanistan, heading home. Chechnyans, for example, used Turkey as a way station on their way home. Palestinians, Jordanians and Jordanians of Palestinian descent, as well as a few Lebanese, headed back to Lebanon. The Syrians arrested some of them for interrogation and it is known that mostly the Qaida have gone to Ein Hilwe.

The Ein Hilwe battles last month were initiated by the Qaida men there, with three of them killed in the fighting. The fight for control over the camp is not over. Meanwhile, the Qaida there, led by commanders from Afghanistan, is establishing a local infrastructure. One bit of intelligence says they are interested in getting material for chemical weapons.

The gun-battle in the refugee camp was angrily condemned by Lebanese. A Nahar editor Jibran Tuwany wrote on August 15, that "what is happening now in Ein Hilwe camp could become a turning point on the way to the establishment of a state within a state, which would mean a siege of Lebanon and Lebanese territory still in control of the state.

"There are fears that Lebanon will become an isolated island because of all the enclaves created by the Palestinian camps from south to north, through the Bekaa and Beirut. The danger is in all these enclaves managing to connect to one another. What happened in Ein Hilwe is a real war ... reminiscent of the war of 1975," Tuwany wrote.

Very little is known about the connection between Qaida and the Hezbollah and there is no certainty those contacts were developed. The first evidence came in testimony by Al Rahman Mohammed, who was arrested after the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. He said he knows a Hezbollah official met in 1996 in Sudan with someone later identified as a Qaida representative. The mediator for the meeting was a Sudanese sheikh named Ali Numeini. Bin Laden had extensive activity in the country at the time, as did Iranian intelligence. The intelligence reports say that the initiative for the meeting came from Qaida, whose leaders were impressed by Hezbollah attacks on foreign embassies in Lebanon and Argentina.

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To: Brumar89 who wrote (1770)9/2/2002 1:11:21 PM
From: lorne
   of 3959
Kuwait breaks ranks on Saddam
By Jack Fairweather in Kuwait
(Filed: 02/09/2002)

Kuwait became the first Arab state yesterday to signal support for a US-led military coalition against Iraq, in marked contrast to the caution shown by other countries in the region.

The Kuwaiti foreign minister, Sheikh Mohammed Sabah Salem al-Sabah, told The Telegraph: "While Saddam Hussein continues to keep Kuwaiti prisoners of war, and continues to televise threats against Kuwait, we consider the war against Iraq to have never ended."

The sheikh's comments serve as encouragement for a Washington administration struggling to convince the international community of the need for military action.

Saudi Arabia, which America used as a base during the 1991 Gulf War to drive Iraqi invaders from Kuwait, has so far refused to open its territory to American forces for a new war against Baghdad.

A Kuwaiti government official said: "If America asks for support Kuwait will give it. I expect the same response from all Gulf states. There may be the need publicly to be anti-war, but under-the-table deals are being struck."

Twelve years after the Iraqis invaded, Kuwait again looks like a prosperous Gulf emirate, but the trauma caused by the seven-month occupation remains, and with it the growing sense that the only way to achieve regional stability is through military action to remove the Saddam regime.

A spokesman for the deputy prime minister's office said: "The Kuwaiti people are tired of living under the constant threat of aggression from Iraq.

"Those people who say that sending weapons inspectors into Iraq may be a solution to the current crisis are not those who are living within reach of his missiles and his chemical weapons. How can we feel safe with Saddam Hussein next door?"

Dr Masaad Shlash, of the department of sociology at Kuwait University, a prisoner in Iraq after the invasion, said: "Look at Saddam's treatment of his own people. He's the closest thing the Middle East has to Hitler."

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