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   Politicsforeign affairs, unchaperoned

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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (235)9/6/2004 8:37:39 AM
From: BubbaFred
   of 261
Gus - Who is "THEY" referred in Putin's address to the nation. Despite some news media reports of ties to Al Qaeda, there is no mention of Al Qaeda in the address. HMMMM!!!

>>...Some want to tear away saucy piece of our wealth, while others help these aspirants in so doing....<<

>>They still believe that Russia poses a threat to them as a nuclear power. That is why this threat must be eliminated, and terrorism is just another instrument in implementing their designs.<<

Putin makes televised address to people of Russia

04.09.2004, 21.05

MOSCOW, September 4 (Itar-Tass) - President Vladimir Putin has addressed the people of Russia on major radio and television channels in the aftermath of the brutal hostage-taking in Beslan, North Ossetia, that ended in the deaths of about 350 people.

Following is the full text of the address.

“A horrendous tragedy has befallen our country. We all of us deeply suffered in the past few days, letting through our hearts all the developments in the town of Beslan.

“It was not mere murderers whom we had to face; we encountered the ones who had taken up arms against defenseless children.

“First and foremost, I would like to give the words of support to the people who lost the dearest of all the treasures one can have – children, family members, close friends. I share their grief with them.

“I would like to ask you to recall all those who fell at the hands of terrorists in the past few days.

“Russian history has had many tragic pages and has seen many tragic events. We are living in a situation that took shape after the disintegration of a giant state that turned out unviable in the conditions of a rapidly changing world. But in spite of all the difficulties, we managed to keep up the kernel of that giant and called it the Russian Federation.

“We expected a change – a change for the better, but we found ourselves unprepared for many of the things that came upon us. Why did it happen?

“We are living in a transitional economy, which does not meet the requirements or the level of development of society and its political system. Internal conflicts and ethnic contradictions, so toughly suppressed by the dominating ideology in the previous epoch, are mounting now.

“Our attention to the issues of defense and security started flagging, and we let corruption mute our judiciary and law enforcement systems. Our country used to have a most potent system of border defenses, and yet it became defenseless both in the West and in the East virtually overnight.

“Creation of tangible border defenses will take years and billions of rubles, but even there our performance could be more efficient if we reacted timely and professionally.

“I must admit that we did not give a close look to the processes unfolding in our own country and abroad, or anyway we failed to react to them properly.

“We winked at our own weakness, and it is the weak who are always beaten up. Some want to tear away saucy piece of our wealth, while others help these aspirants in so doing. They still believe that Russia poses a threat to them as a nuclear power. That is why this threat must be eliminated, and terrorism is just another instrument in implementing their designs.

“As I said, we encountered crises, revolts, and terrorist acts on many occasions, but what happened this time is a terrorist crime, the cruelty of which stands beyond precedence. This is not a challenge to the President, Parliament, or cabinet of ministers; this is a challenge to the entire Russian state and its people. This is aggression against us.

“The terrorists believe they are stronger than ourselves, that their cruelty will intimidate us, paralyze our will and degenerate our society. Here we have a seeming alternative – to rebuff them or to begin obeying their orders. The second means to give in and to let them partition Russia in a hope that they will somehow let us alone.

“As President of the Russian state, a person who gave an oath to defend the nation and its territorial integrity, and last but not least, as a Russian citizen, I am confident that we have no such alternative.

“The moment we give in to their blackmail and succumb to panic, we will plunge millions of people into an endless chain of bloodletting conflicts, like Karabakh [an enclave of Azerbaijan predominantly populated by Armenians – Itar-Tass] or the Dniester region [a part of Moldova that proclaimed itself independent in the early 1990’s – Itar-Tass] or other tragedies of the kind. One cannot but see that this is obvious.

“What we have on our hands is not the scattered acts of intimidation or odd terrorist sorties. This is direct intervention on the part of international terrorism in Russia. It is a total and full-blown war that keeps claiming the lives of our compatriots.

“But world experience proves that such wars do not end quickly. Given this situation, we cannot afford complacent treatment of it anymore.

“We must set up a much more efficient system of security and make demands to our law enforcement system that its actions become proportionate to the size of new threats.

“The main thing, however, is to mobilize the consciousness of the nation in the face of a common threat. Events in other countries show that terrorists get the most adequate responses in the places where they run into the power of the state, on the one hand, and organized and united civic society, on the other.

“Dear fellow countrymen,

The people who sent the terrorists to commit that utterly heinous crime harbored a hope to set on our peoples to fight with one another and unleash a bloody feud in Northern Caucasus.

“I would like to tell you the following in that connection.

“First, an expansive set of measures aimed at strengthening the country’s unity will be prepared shortly.

“Second, I believe it is vital that we set up a new system of interaction between the forces controlling situations in Northern Caucasus.

“Third, we need a new efficient system of crisis management, based on completely novel approaches to the activity of law enforcement agencies.

“I would like make special stress on the intention to implement those measures in strict conformity with the Constitution”.

“My dear friends, all of us are living through mournful and painful hours now, and I would like to thank all of you for your self-restraint and civic responsibility.

“We have always been stronger than them and will remain so. I mean our morals, courage, and human solidarity. I saw it again this early morning.

“Beslan is literally imbued with grief and pain, but people there were so much caring for one another, so much cooperative.

“They were not afraid to risk their lives for the sake of others. They remained real people even in the most inhumane conditions.

“It is hard to reconcile oneself with bitter losses, but the ordeal has made us closer to one another and compelled us to reassess many things. We must be together nowadays, because that is the only way to defeat the enemy”.


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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (235)9/6/2004 1:58:31 PM
From: average joe
   of 261

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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (233)9/6/2004 8:00:54 PM
From: Thomas M.
   of 261
He's just babbling. Chirac wasn't caught with anything, the oil for food "scandal" is a big dud, and Chirac's credibility is sky-high because he confronted the U.S.


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To: marcos who started this subject9/6/2004 8:50:59 PM
From: Thomas M.
   of 261
Nadine says: "Show me a neocon who called Zinni a traitor." So, someone does just that:

Message 20492268

Nadine trashes about like a fish out of water:

Message 20492296

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To: BubbaFred who wrote (237)9/7/2004 3:57:35 AM
   of 261
Re: “First and foremost, I would like to give the words of support to the people who lost the dearest of all the treasures one can have – children, family members, close friends. I share their grief with them.

You know, there's a joke circulating around Russia these days: what's the gravest peril faced by Russians today? Is it to get abducted by "ugly Chechens"? Nope. It's to be "rescued" by the Spetznats (special forces)!

Think about it: what was the big deal for Putin to yield to Chechen terrorists and free their fellow prisoners (provided they were still alive, of course)? Let's see what would have been the worst-case scenario: the Chechen terrorists release all the children and leave for Chechnya together with Chechen prisoners Putin ordered to set free... So, our merry Chechens got back in Chechnya and resume their "terrorist attacks" on Russian troops, killing a few dozens Russian soldiers... Now compare that to the bloodshed resulting from the opposite policy: hundreds of Russian hostages were killed in Beslan! If Russian policy keeps on that course, one day, on the next hostage crisis, we'll hear that a nuclear missile was fired at the hostage compound to make sure all the "Chechen animals" are killed...

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To: Thomas M. who wrote (239)9/7/2004 7:24:17 AM
From: Chas.
   of 261
It is truly a shame that you have lost your ability to reason...but it happens, we will just have to deal with it.

BTW it was "Food for Oil"...not Oil for Food...try to keep up.

Chirac, Putin, Schroder, Anan...others, all caught with their bank accounts and deposits..."Food for Oil" deal made them all millionaires through Saddam Hussein and at the expense of the Iraqi people, he(Hussein) was a blight on Iraq and history, those that supported him are no better.

the story never got "legs" and never will because of the UN connections with the liberal media... and the persona exuded by Kofi it goes.

Re Chiracs credibility it is only real in a few places, France, Iran, Syria, NK, Sudan, Canada(unfortunately)....


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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (241)9/7/2004 7:34:15 AM
From: Chas.
   of 261
it is a shame that you fail to understand the dynamics involved with the Russian school hostage situation in Beslan.. a truly tragic event perpetrated by a few dissident Chechnyans and supported by 15 or so radical Islamic terrorists.

Amazing that you lay the atrocity on the back of the Russian responders.......

you and Thomas deserve each other....


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To: Chas. who wrote (221)9/11/2004 2:51:33 AM
From: marcos
   of 261
'USA, Canada, Great Britain...... we, the free West'

So right there you are lumping three nations that would constitute a whole lot of separate tribes, had we not knocked back a good deal of tribalist excess already ..... some tribes look like they'd be real hard to merge into anything but graves, granted, still you have to admit that we've achieved a lot already, and that the general trend remains positive

'the tribes will never merge, the obstacles are religion,
ethnic loyalty, false pride of Motherland....

Agreed on religion, that's a biggie, the whackos have got to be whacked back into line with humanity from time to time .... Islam doesn't have a clergy per se, so there's no door on which their coming Martin Luther can nail his ninety-five faeces, and more's the pity ..... although, look back to the Reformation, that started up the Hundred Years War, yikes

Ethnic loyalty can get out of hand, it should never trump humanity, but i think there are positive aspects to it, it's inevitable in any case, folks like the company of other folks who speak the same language, eat the same food, have customs each other understand, and are all related to each other anyway ....... 'false pride of Motherland', not sure what you mean by this .... we know it as Patria, which is actually Fatherland, but quibbling aside i don't see anything false about it, or anything much dangerous either .... it's only really a problem for people who cross other people's borders with their troops, maybe ....

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To: BubbaFred who wrote (236)9/13/2004 5:09:54 AM
   of 261
The Structure of Power in the US... in 2010:


Twelve jurists comprise the Council of Guardians, six of whom are appointed by the Supreme Leader. The head of the judiciary recommends the remaining six, which are officially appointed by Parliament.

The Council of Guardians is vested with the authority to interpret the constitution and determines if the laws passed by Parliament are in line with the Bible (Ten Commandments). This means that the council has effective veto power over Parliament. If it deems that a law passed by Parliament is incompatible with the constitution or Bible, it is referred back to Parliament for revision.

The council also examines presidential and parliamentary candidates to determine their fitness. At times, the council has dramatically winnowed the field of candidates. In the 2000 presidential election, for example, the council accorded victory to George W. Bush in the Bush v. Gore case, and again in the 2004 presidential election.

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To: BubbaFred who wrote (236)9/13/2004 5:20:42 AM
   of 261
Follow-up to my previous post:

Council of Guardians

The Council of Guardians is a high office within the constitution of the Christian Republic of America which has the authority to interpret the constitution and to determine if the laws passed by the parliament are in line with the constitution of America or not. As such, the Council itself is not a legislative body, but it has veto power over the American parliament. Its members are composed of Christian clerics and lawyers.

The Council approves all candidates for election to the American Presidency, legislative branch, and the Assembly of Experts.

Six members of the Council are clerics selected by the Supreme Leader, who serves as America's Head of State. The other six members are lawyers proposed by America's head of judicial branch (selected in turn by the Supreme Leader), and voted in by the Parliament. Members are elected for six years on a phased basis, so that half the membership changes every three years.

As mentioned, the council also holds veto power over all legislation approved by Congressmen. It can drop a law based on two accounts: being against Christian laws, or being against the Bible. While all the members vote on the laws being compatible with the Bible, only the six clerics vote on them being compatible with Judeo-Christianity.

If any law is rejected, they will be passed back to the Congressmen for correction. If the Congressmen and the Council of Guardians couldn't decide on a case, it is passed up to the Expediency Council for a final decision.

Chief Guardian William H. Rehnquist:

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