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   Politicsforeign affairs, unchaperoned

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To: marcos who wrote (169)9/2/2004 1:45:05 AM
From: WillP
   of 261
Why do people discuss politics on threads, Will?

Probably because there are few clear wrongs, even fewer absolute rights, and everyone if full of deeply-held convictions.

One thing that always aroused my curiosity however...

Why do so many people discuss stocks on threads?

As for four and Japanese....interesting. I wasn't aware of that one. With all of your pictures on your profile, I'm sure you're aware of the origin of "third on a match" taboo.

There are probably taboos for most numbers.



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To: American Spirit who wrote (202)9/2/2004 1:50:25 AM
From: Karen Lawrence
   of 261
Michael Moore's column tonight...quite eloquent:

Don't send more kids to die
By Michael Moore
NEW YORK — Tonight, it's show time for George W. Bush, and I can't wait to hear what he has to tell the Republican convention.
It has been a pretty thrilling week so far, my favorite moment by far being the rebellious Bush twins who, in just a few short minutes, delivered on their promise to issue "payback" to their parents and all authority in general. (Related stories: Moore index page)

They revealed their parents' pet name for each other: "Bushie" or "Bushy" — no spelling was provided. They seemed to have embarrassed their grandmother with a joke about the TV show Sex and the City as a place to have sex. And they claimed to have seen their boogieing parents "shake it like a Polaroid picture." That's one picture that took the rest of the night for me to shake out of my head.

Nonetheless, I loved the Bush daughters: They were funny, sassy and free spirits. Back in 1999, they told their father in no uncertain terms that they did not want him to run for president. They wanted their dad at home, they wanted their privacy, and they wanted to go to college in peace. He chose to ignore their pleas — and I guess Tuesday night was their way of saying, "Thanks, Dad."

And thank him they should. He and Laura have obviously done a good job raising two bright, independent women. He made their privacy a top priority and did what he could to protect them. They clearly love their parents and, when you see that happen, you know the Bushes did something right in their home. For that, they should be commended.

Other fathers and mothers who loved their daughters and sons across America can no longer celebrate with them. That's because their children are dead on the streets and roads of Iraq, sent there by Mr. Bush to "defend" America.

This week, in an appearance leading up to his arrival here Wednesday night, Bush acknowledged he had miscalculated what would happen in Iraq after he invaded it. He had thought it was going to be much easier. It turned out to be much, much worse.

That must be some comfort to the parents of nearly 1,000 brave soldiers now dead because of his "miscalculation." If I made a miscalculation and ran over a child on the street, what do you think would happen to me? Do you think the cops would simply say, "Hey, Mr. Moore, you did your best driving down this street, you made a miscalculation, the kid is dead, but you are trying to save the world, so be on your way?" Something tells me this is not what would happen. What I don't get is that Mr. Bush makes his mistake and thinks he has a right to continue in his job.

Let's hope he isn't getting his inspiration from Richard Nixon, the same man Arnold Schwarzenegger hailed Tuesday night as his reason for becoming a Republican. You have to give Arnold an award for guts. He must be the first Republican convention speaker to mention Nixon since he resigned. Nixon snuck into office in 1968 with his secret plan to end the Vietnam War. Another miscalculation: The war continued for years, and thousands more died.

I would love to hear Bush apologize tonight to the parents and loved ones of those who have died in Iraq. I would like to hear him say he knows what it means to love your children and that he, in good conscience, cannot send any more children to their deaths.

I would like to hear him say tonight, "I'm sorry. There never were weapons of mass destruction and there never was a connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. There was no imminent threat, our lives were not in danger, no missiles were going to hit Cleveland. Because of our desire to get our hands on the second largest supply of oil in the world, we sacrificed a thousand of your sons and daughters. For this, we are greatly sorry."

I guess a boy can dream.

The other thing I would like to hear tonight is: Why haven't you caught Osama bin Laden? You've had three years to find him. The man killed nearly 3,000 people here on our soil.

Maybe Bush has no worse explanation than he just hasn't been able to do it. Well, if your town's dogcatcher couldn't catch a wild dog that has been on the loose biting people for three years, what would be the dogcatcher's chances for re-election? Not good.

And so it should be for Bush.

Unless he has the answers tonight. Perhaps he has a reason or can accept responsibility for his actions and promise to send no one else's child off to die for a cause that has nothing to do with the defense of this country.

If he takes a moment to look into his daughters' eyes tonight, he will know the answer and give the greatest speech of his life.

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To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (204)9/2/2004 5:44:19 AM
From: Chas.
   of 261
Zell Miller, Dick Cheney tell it like it is...
expose Kerry for what he really is.....
a liberal, left wing, windsurferboy.........

Michael Moore exploiting millions of leftwing types, becoming a multimillionaire at their expense..........


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To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (204)9/2/2004 11:40:51 AM
From: American Spirit
   of 261
Why hasn't Bush apologized to 9-11 families?
9-11 happened on his watch because he ignored the warnings.

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To: American Spirit who wrote (206)9/2/2004 11:44:28 AM
From: Karen Lawrence
   of 261
Why is Bush using 9/11 victims to support his cause. Isn't the fact we were attacked on HIS watch enough for the right to show his incompetence? And now we have almost 1,000 troops killed in Iraq, adding to the Bush body count.

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To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (207)9/2/2004 11:49:15 AM
From: American Spirit
   of 261
Most 9-11 families are not happy with Bush at all. He tries to stop the 9-11 commission remember.

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To: American Spirit who wrote (208)9/2/2004 11:59:19 AM
From: Karen Lawrence
   of 261
He tried to stop the Commission, which went ahead anyway, now he says he supported it. Flip/flop Bush.

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To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (209)9/2/2004 12:02:06 PM
From: American Spirit
   of 261
Flip-Flop Bush flops on everything but tas cuts for the rich. Look at Iraq. He's been fairly steady but this election season he has flip-flopped from his "Bring it on!" challenge to terrorists and appeased them, dropping back and disposing of the responsibility, handing it off to Iraqis. All so more bad stuff like Abu graib doesn't dirty his white shirt. But only Kerry can solve Iraq because we needs lots of international help and they just dont want to help Bush, they distrust him so much.

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To: American Spirit who wrote (210)9/2/2004 12:09:54 PM
From: JakeStraw
   of 261
The Opening Salvo:

Last March, Demo National Committee loudmouth Terry McAuliffe (also in the tenacious grip of PMS) estimated that Kerry would have to win the hearts and minds of veterans in order to defeat George W. Bush. So he wrapped Kerry in his embellished war record and, a month later, took a cheap shot at President Bush, proclaiming that he was AWOL during his last year of service as an Air National Guard fighter pilot.

Right about now, McAuliffe and Kerry are wishing they'd never fired that shot. Much to their surprise, several Vietnam veterans groups had the audacity to take a gander at Kerry's service record--both his record of ''giving aid and comfort to the enemy'' by slandering his fellow veterans while they were still fighting or captive in Vietnam, and his contrived record of heroic acts as evidenced by his impressive list of military decorations. By early May, those veterans were firing back at Kerry and his cadre.

Initially, Kerry took the defensive: ''I think a lot of veterans are going to be very angry at a president who can't account for his own service in the National Guard...criticizing somebody who fought for their country and served.'' (Oops, another cheap shot at our National Guard and Reserve forces.)

Fortunately, President Bush can account for his service. He wanted to fly fighter jets, he earned his wings, and he logged many air defense hours in an F-102 Delta Dagger with the 147th Fighter Group and its subordinate 111th FIS, Texas ANG. Mr. Bush's unit was subject to rotation in Vietnam under the Palace Alert Program. In fact, 15 F-102 pilots were killed in Vietnam, but American involvement in that conflict was de-escalating by 1972, and Bush was honorably discharged from his service with the ANG.

Of course, as noted in The Patriot many times before, George Bush's most distinguished military service has been in his role as Commander-in-Chief since the 9/11 attack on our nation--one of the most difficult and challenging periods for any president since World War II.

Implicit in Kerry's warning, however, is the notion that he, himself, volunteered for service in Vietnam. Remember Bill Clinton's repetitive ''Send me'' paean at the Demo Convention? Try again. Kerry's anti-military sentiments were well known when he was a student at Yale. After graduating, Kerry petitioned his draft board for a student deferment so he could study in--where else?--Paris. His deferment denied, Kerry then calculated that he could avoid Vietnam by joining the Naval Reserves, where he'd likely be able to serve stateside even if his unit was activated. Kerry's service record indicates that on 18 February 1966 he enlisted in the USNR under ''inactive'' status. This puts the lie to any assertion that Kerry ''volunteered'' for dangerous swift boat duty while George W. Bush somehow slunk off to fly fighter-jets.

As fate would have it, Kerry's reserve unit was activated, while the president's ANG unit remained stateside--yet both circumstances were far beyond the control of these two junior officers. As for Kerry's choice of Swift Boats, he told the Boston Globe last year, ''I didn't really want to get involved in the war. When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling....''

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To: American Spirit who wrote (210)9/2/2004 12:33:22 PM
From: Karen Lawrence
   of 261
Bush has also been consistent in his

Bush's 9/11 Cowardice
by Kos

published by Daily Kos

Bush's 9/11 Cowardice

So what does it mean when Tucker Carlson and Andrew Sullivan both declare they can't vote for Bush in November? That they're whores? That they're reading the tea leaves and don't want to get stuck on the wrong side of history? That they're tools and hacks and don't matter?

Perhaps. But they do have their own sphere of relevance, and frankly, every right-wing pundit that turns away from Bush is a victory for us. And the latest Esquire magazine, in addition to running Ron Reagan's anti-Bush screed, also treats us to Carlson and Sullivan declaring their disappointment in the failed Bush presidency.

Carlson, in particular, is brutal on Bush, taking him to task for his cowardice on 9-11 (no free online version):

"... The attacks initially made me sorry I voted for him. For most of that day, as my wife and children stayed inside our house listening to the roar of fighter jets overhead, and black smoke from the Pentagon hovered above our neighborhood, Bush failed to return to Washington. My family sat unprotected a few miles from the scene of a terrorist attack; Bush hid in a bunker on some faraway military base.

"It infuriated me, as did the subsequent excuses from White House spokesman. There was a risk in coming back, they said. There was a risk in coming back, they said. Of course there was. That's the point: Leaders must take risks, sometimes physical ones. Bush should have elbowed his Secret Service detail out of the way and returned in a display of fearlessness to his nation's capital. I found it distressingly revealing that he didn't.
So did I. It was one of my earliest thoughts that fateful day. Say what you will about Giuliani, and most of what I would say is bad. But Rudi showed the type of leadership Bush only wishes he could muster."

What's worse, Rove knew how bad Bush's cowardice looked, so much the same way they handle any obstacle they face, they lied. Rove claimed they had received credible threats against Air Force One, a ludicrous assertion that was proven false days later. But in the chaos of the moment, both Bush's palpable fear and the lies used to cover it up were lost.

But as Carlson says, the incident was revealing. Just as Kerry's heroism half a world away is revealing. There's a reason the Swift Boat Liars are going after the story so hard. Kerry turned his boat into the danger he faced. Bush ran to Nebraska and cowered in fear.

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