| To: FaultLine who started this subject | 4/12/2003 7:30:20 PM | | From: FaultLine | | | | HELLO EVERYONE
I need to steer this 20 Mule Team Borax Wagon Train
(see: Ronald W. Reagan, Death Valley Days).
Please post all SARS discussion to SARS - what next?
Subject 53829
Please post all these items somewhere else for now:
1. Anti-war arguments and protestor criticisms
2. African aid issues
3. Discussions of personalities, TV networks, and newspapers
4. As usual, we are not analyzing each other -- HUGE waste of time.
5. Kyoto and Global warming issues
If anyone wants to suggest a home for these topics, speak up!
Try to limit the discussion here for the next few days to:
1. The Iraq War effort and reestablisment of order (and all parties)
2. Worldwide reaction to the fall of Iraq
3. Future development paths for Iraq
4. Literature and discussion on the future of the Arab world.
5. Specific news coverage complaints but not generic 'Xxxx sucks' comments
PM me if you think I have forgotten something or you need clarification.
Thanks,
--fl@heeahhh!.tv |
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| To: JohnM who wrote (93006) | 4/12/2003 7:38:07 PM | | From: FaultLine | | | | I don't expect single state democracy in Iraq, incidentally. I expect some sort of federation with varying degrees of something we might call democracy within each federation. Looks to me as if the Kurds are further ahead on this score but they could easily skip to the Afghan model.
I agree with you 100%. I tried to anticipate this response by the proviso that humankind can intelligently (uh, oh<g>) intervene and jumpstart the process. You've got it exactly right.
--fl |
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| To: Neeka who wrote (92874) | 4/12/2003 7:47:17 PM | | From: ig | | | | "How do you know this? I am not doubting you, I just haven't heard or read about it anywhere. "
I learned it here on this thread. Someone posted a link to a report in the Washington Post that covered it.
ig |
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| To: JohnM who wrote (92975) | 4/12/2003 7:54:48 PM | | From: Jacob Snyder | | | | re: Napolean analogy:
Rather than a biography, or a military history, I'd suggest a history of the diplomatic/social/economic changes in Europe at that time. Look at France's failed Regime Change in Spain, and their failed Nation Building in Poland, the way they attempted to co-opt or destroy local elites, the way the ideology of Freedom often ended up meaning the freedom for Frenchmen to plunder foreign nations. The way the slogans of the Revolution got recycled to justify Imperialism. |
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| To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (92949) | 4/12/2003 8:03:28 PM | | From: slacker711 | | | | Sooner or later, we are going to recognise oil imports as our Achilles heel, a weak point in our national security that must be addressed. If we are smart, we'll do this before it becomes a crisis.
It drives me nuts that most Republicans seem to refuse to accept this....reducing our dependence on oil isnt an enviromental issue, it is a national security issue.
I am no way shape or form an enviromentalist (I support drilling in ANWAR) but this issue just seems obvious to me. Phasing in higher gasoline taxes (balanced by corresponding tax cuts elsewhere) seems to be the easiest way to start the process.
If the Democrats have any brains they will absolutely hammer away at this issue....of course, I think they are on the wrong side of the ANWAR issue, so it may not work.
Slacker |
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| To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (93026) | 4/12/2003 8:11:07 PM | | From: JohnM | | | | Rather than a biography, or a military history, I'd suggest a history of the diplomatic/social/economic changes in Europe at that time.
Boy, you are a hard taskmaster, Jacob. A biography I could get interested in and have on my to do list to find the best Napoleon bio(I have a couple on my shelves). But reading diplomatic history is a way to put me to sleep. For good. I might read the N bio and have the diplomatic history on the side of the chair to consult for reference purposes. But I have to hang my thoughts on the actions of individuals. Those, France did this, then Austria did that, then Spain did this, put the snore button on.
Now the recommendation to read the social/economic changes has actually been something I've considered doing, though I read it via the "bottom up" approach to history.
Well fun and games once I quit putting off the tax work, get it done, and get back to good reading. |
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| To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (92957) | 4/12/2003 8:14:43 PM | | From: unclewest | | | | Ransacking museums is another part of war. It happens often...nothing new.
The most important artifacts are often returned later.
The military has a slightly different view and a different set of priorities during actual armed conflict. The goal right now is to end the hostilities as quickly as possible. When that has been accomplished, other things can move up the list of priorities. In the meantime, do not expect to see military commanders setting aside their military war mission for any reason until at least most of the hostilities cease. |
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| To: JohnM who wrote (92958) | 4/12/2003 8:19:15 PM | | From: greenspirit | | | | John, to borrow a favorite condescending phrase. Take a deep breath and relax. Maybe go for a long walk and join a support the troops rally in your area. :)
I realize it's difficult for you to believe universal values of freedom and liberty exist, but, they do. President Bush has tapped into the same universal values which freed most of Europe just a little over a decade ago.
The celebrations by the Iraqi people, the flowers given to American troops, and the cheering along the roads is all a part of the predictions you poo-pood a few weeks and months ago.
Yes, those like Bush, who are part of the great unwashed mass were right. And nearly 30 million people are free because of their clear headed thinking and dogged determination.
By the way, I don't demonize posters here. I question their *judgement* and ability to critically examine other points of view. Your mis-characterization that I demonize, was a form of demonization in and of itself.
The fact is John the anti-war protestors, the "I hate anything Bush supports" and the critical arm chair generals were all wrong. This has been an amazingly successful military campaign, which will not only win the war in record time, with incredible low levels of casualties, but, it will win the peace as well.
Democracy is now coming to the heart of Middle East.
All brought to you "Courtesy of the Red White and Blue". :) |
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