| To: NickSE who wrote (88450) | 3/31/2003 9:31:22 PM | | From: NickSE | | | | Royal Marines storm Basra suburb
telegraph.co.uk
Triumphant Royal Marine commandos yesterday mopped up the final traces of resistance in the south of Basra after the success of the first urban infantry assault of the war by British troops.
Under cover from smoke shells fired by British gunners, troops from Delta Company of 40 Commando renewed the assault at first light, attacking two enemy positions, known by military planners using the operation's James Bond theme as Pussy and Galore.
Attempts by Iraqi troops to flee from the British advance over the Shatt Al-Arab waterway were confounded when two boats crammed with soldiers were attacked by mortars and helicopter-borne missiles.
By midday some sort of normality had returned to the riverside suburb of Abu Al Khasib and Royal Marine foot patrols were already deployed Northern Ireland-style, looking for Saddam loyalists.
They received a warm welcome from the members of the 30,000-strong population, with children and adults giving the thumbs-up, smiling and shouting "Mister, mister, England good".
One surprised Royal Marine said: "We were meant to be giving them food but they keep coming up to us and giving us stuff."
The success of Operation James may now embolden senior commanders to order a full advance on the heart of Basra, a city believed to be controlled by a desperate pro-Saddam minority.
While there were some Royal Marine casualties from accidents in the battle for Abu Al Khasib, none was caused by enemy fire. Looking at the devastation around the town, that seemed astonishing.
Under plumes of black smoke from two burning oil tankers, more than 10 destroyed Iraqi tanks could be seen in one stretch of road alone.
Each had been stopped in its tracks, its thick steel armour peeled open. There did not appear to be any Iraqi dead inside, but plenty of hastily removed uniforms were strewn here and there.
"It looks like the crews got out before the tanks were actually engaged," Brig Jim Dutton, the commander of 3 Commando Brigade, said.
"That says something I suppose about the level of commitment from the enemy we face."
Reinforced trenches and earthworks had been built to the south of the town where it faces the salty, marsh flats of the Faw peninsula.
But no matter how elaborate the Iraqi tank positions, nothing could stop 600 Royal Marines from 40 Commando advancing on foot in the early hours of Sunday supported by tanks, artillery and air power.
The 105mm light guns of 29 Commando Regiment, Royal Artillery, had fired an unprecedented barrage ahead of the Royal Marines. Each of the eight guns from 8 Commando Battery fired more than 100 rounds, and their gun pits out on the flats were each surrounded by a small mountain of burnt brass shell cases.
On the roads within the town there were heaps of British spent ammunition cases, each one telling part of the story of the 14-hour battle for Abu Al Khasib. An Iraqi anti-aircraft gun lay destroyed next to a bridge and mortar impact splashes pockmarked the roads.
The Challenger 2 tanks from C Squadron the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards were crucial to the battle. "Plenty of rocket-propelled grenades were fired at our call signs but they simply bounced off the armour," said Capt Fraser McLeman, 26, from Stratford-upon-Avon, the leader of one of the tank troops.
After the battle, there was a buzz of excitement among the Royal Marines as groups exchanged stories. A physical training instructor sergeant was generally acclaimed after he was hit on his bullet-proof vest by enemy fire. The shot shattered the heavy ceramic plate in his vest but the sergeant continued to fight and even killed his attacker.
One British armoured vehicle was attacked by 70 rocket-propelled grenades but it was not destroyed and its occupants were unhurt.
A Royal Marine told of a grenade glancing off his helmet and another told of how an Iraqi colonel driving a car with a briefcase full of cash refused to stop and was shot dead. "I didn't know what to do with the money so I gave it to the kids, bundles of the stuff," the Royal Marine said.
For the Iraqis the arrival of the British also appeared to be welcome news. British troops discovered evidence of the brutality of the regime in a police station in the suburb where they found what appeared to be a torture chamber.
"If any proof was needed of the nature of Saddam Hussein's regime then things like this give it," Lt-Col Gordon Messenger, the commanding officer of 40 Commando, said.
Local people were not yet in any mood to discuss the past, but life appeared to be returning to some sort of normality yesterday.
Shops opened, selling bags of spices and nuts, and at least one bakery was producing fresh, unleavened bread in a wood-fired oven.
The Royal Marines now patrolling the streets of the town reported good relations with the local population, who tipped them off on Sunday about an ambush being prepared by Saddam loyalists. Using this information, the British soldiers surprised their ambushers, killing three of them.
For Col Messenger yesterday, there was only a residual sense of pride in the performance of his men. "To the layman the achievements in Abu Al Khasib of these men might sound strange but I know them well and it came as no surprise to me," he said. "Quite simply, they were magnificent." |
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| To: michael97123 who wrote (88472) | 3/31/2003 9:35:24 PM | | From: Sarmad Y. Hermiz | | | | >> I will bet you a Bud against a Molson that there was a fedayeen driver who did this as a psychological suicide bomb hoping for this result.
I think you are sick. Seek psychiatric help. I'll join the people who put you on ignore. You and that other rationalizer quelbo or whatever. By the way, NPR/PBS reported that the embedded reporter heard American soldiers in the platoon question whether any timely warning was given to the vehicle. |
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| To: FaultLine who started this subject | 3/31/2003 9:36:07 PM | | From: Dayuhan | | | | I'll be here only sporadically for a bit... the satellite connection that provides pretty much the only practical link between this mountaintop and the rest of the world seems to be having an internal crisis. We can get on, but only occasionally and very, very slowly.
I hope some sort of effective therapy arrives soon, I'm going through withdrawal on a number of fronts. |
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| To: E.J. Neitz Jr who wrote (88467) | 3/31/2003 9:41:26 PM | | From: BEEF JERKEY | | | | Interesting take on the war's effect on the dollar @ prudent bear:
A quick and “clean” resolution to the war was crucial for bolstering flagging dollar confidence. Today’s open-ended “resolution” is a loss from a financial perspective. So at this point we are left to contemplate the distinct possibility that the growing prospect for a protracted and ugly war could be a catalyst for the looming dollar crisis. After all, over the past five years, Rest of World (from the Fed “Flow of Funds” report) has increased holdings of U.S. financial assets by a staggering $2.7 Trillion, or 56%, to $6.3 Trillion. My heightened concern today is that these massive positions were accumulated under the perception of a world almost unrecognizable to what is now unfolding; a vastly different American economy; an alarmingly deteriorating global economic and political backdrop; and an altered view of the United State’s international role and standing.
Holdings of U.S. financial assets were not accumulated with the expectation of massive federal deficits and a wartime economy. The perception of a vibrant, productivity and technology-driven juggernaut is quickly giving way to the reality of a stagnant U.S. economy with enormous expenditures for defense, both international and domestic (not to mention a mortgage finance Bubble!). Keeping in mind our thesis of the exponential growth in non-productive Credit – escalating inflation of U.S. financial claims – foreign holders of U.S. financial assets are now faced with steadfast devaluation of their share of the underlying wealth producing assets of our economy. It’s an accident in wait.
prudentbear.com |
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| To: FaultLine who wrote (88495) | 3/31/2003 9:43:53 PM | | From: mistermj | | | | Abrams Main Battle Tank Armor
arl.army.mil
The special armors for the original M1 Abrams tank and all subsequent variants were designed together with engineers from General Dynamics Land Systems [link] and scientists and engineers at the U.S. Army Research Laboratory. These armors were developed from potential patents from existing secrecy orders based on technology of U.S. and U.K. origin. These armors are unique, still highly classified, and provide protection levels that render U.S. main battle tanks the most survivable in the world today.
Background:
A new armor-defeat mechanism was discovered which provides revolutionary enhancements to heavy armor protection. With the discovery of this technology and its potential came the requirement to understand the mechanics and interactions between the penetrator and target. Comprehensive terminal ballistics investigations were made to elucidate the underlying mechanisms. The use of continuum mechanics codes, physical and mathematical modeling, and experimentation allowed the new concept to be ultimately exploited as a viable armor technology.
Technology:
These technologies have been granted secrecy orders recognizing them as patentable concepts and are still the main defeat mechanisms for the protection of the Abrams main battle tank. These defeat mechanisms feature a unique combination of geometry, material type, and fabrication method. They have been applied as the main, side, and bustle armor for the M1, M1A1, and M1A2 Abrams tanks. |
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| To: quehubo who wrote (88471) | 3/31/2003 9:46:15 PM | | From: KLP | | | | | Look up Gazi George....He worked directly for Saddam in the 70's. Fox interviewed him this AM. Just another link in the chain of people who know.... |
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| To: carranza2 who wrote (88506) | 3/31/2003 9:49:11 PM | | From: Clarksterh | | | | Carranza et al - Armor penetration ratings of many 100's of mm is normal for anti-tank weapons. Look up some spec sheets. But modern tanks have armor that is rated up there as well (although offhand I can't find any armors rated in the same way) - of course it isn't just a simple plate of steel with some reactive armor draped over the top.
Clark |
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| To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (88503) | 3/31/2003 9:52:30 PM | | From: quehubo | | | | Huh, were you referring to me? I find this referred to incident quite indicative of the distress the Iraqi's finds themselves.
What would motivate these Women and children to do what they did? My guess is that their loved ones were lost in this struggle to take out Saddam's regime and they wanted to seek some kind of revenge.
Unfortunately there are many pawns in Saddams struggle to maintain his nation of terror. |
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| To: greenspirit who wrote (85622) | 3/31/2003 9:52:57 PM | | From: Bilow | | | | Hi Michael D. Cummings; Re: "Carl, you're so fixated on Vietnam it has blinded you."
I have a military library of around 2000 books. Damn few of them are on Vietnam.
Re: "This will be no Vietnam."
I agree. The problem is that if I compare this to conflicts that the herd is even less familiar with than Vietnam, my comments go completely over their heads. The recorded history of war on this planet is many thousands of years old. It didn't start in 1966. Human nature is unchanged over that recorded history. That's why it was so easy to predict that the Afghans would welcome us with parades while the Iraqis would shoot at us.
Re: "This is not the Vietnam military, it's far better trained, better equipped and better led."
(1) Saddam's military is better than the Vietcong.
(2) Our military is so good mostly because it is a volunteer force. Unfortunately, the nature of the Iraqi conflict is such that we don't have a large enough volunteer force to deal with the problem. In Vietnam, we had the assistance of the ARVN, but we have no corresponding ally in Iraq. The British are not likely to follow the massive reinforcements we'll have to do. The end result is that in order to stay in Iraq, we will have to bring back conscription, and that will lower the quality of our forces. But I agree with you, the quality of our armed forces is now the highest it has ever been. This is the peak.
Re: "Those who fixate on one event in history, and fail to see the changing circumstances will look foolish when this is all over."
The Administration's plans were caused by their fixation on the US military successes in Afghanistan and the Gulf war. This blinded them. What you accuse me of is exactly what the Administration has done. Instead of looking at war as a continuous feature of the human race, with thousands of years of history, they only looked at the two most recent conflicts. Their error is already apparent. No flag waving Iraqis.
-- Carl |
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