| To: FaultLine who wrote (88495) | 3/31/2003 9:43:53 PM | | From: mistermj | | | | Abrams Main Battle Tank Armor
arl.army.mil
The special armors for the original M1 Abrams tank and all subsequent variants were designed together with engineers from General Dynamics Land Systems [link] and scientists and engineers at the U.S. Army Research Laboratory. These armors were developed from potential patents from existing secrecy orders based on technology of U.S. and U.K. origin. These armors are unique, still highly classified, and provide protection levels that render U.S. main battle tanks the most survivable in the world today.
Background:
A new armor-defeat mechanism was discovered which provides revolutionary enhancements to heavy armor protection. With the discovery of this technology and its potential came the requirement to understand the mechanics and interactions between the penetrator and target. Comprehensive terminal ballistics investigations were made to elucidate the underlying mechanisms. The use of continuum mechanics codes, physical and mathematical modeling, and experimentation allowed the new concept to be ultimately exploited as a viable armor technology.
Technology:
These technologies have been granted secrecy orders recognizing them as patentable concepts and are still the main defeat mechanisms for the protection of the Abrams main battle tank. These defeat mechanisms feature a unique combination of geometry, material type, and fabrication method. They have been applied as the main, side, and bustle armor for the M1, M1A1, and M1A2 Abrams tanks. |
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| To: quehubo who wrote (88471) | 3/31/2003 9:46:15 PM | | From: KLP | | | | | Look up Gazi George....He worked directly for Saddam in the 70's. Fox interviewed him this AM. Just another link in the chain of people who know.... |
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| To: carranza2 who wrote (88506) | 3/31/2003 9:49:11 PM | | From: Clarksterh | | | | Carranza et al - Armor penetration ratings of many 100's of mm is normal for anti-tank weapons. Look up some spec sheets. But modern tanks have armor that is rated up there as well (although offhand I can't find any armors rated in the same way) - of course it isn't just a simple plate of steel with some reactive armor draped over the top.
Clark |
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| To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (88503) | 3/31/2003 9:52:30 PM | | From: quehubo | | | | Huh, were you referring to me? I find this referred to incident quite indicative of the distress the Iraqi's finds themselves.
What would motivate these Women and children to do what they did? My guess is that their loved ones were lost in this struggle to take out Saddam's regime and they wanted to seek some kind of revenge.
Unfortunately there are many pawns in Saddams struggle to maintain his nation of terror. |
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| To: greenspirit who wrote (85622) | 3/31/2003 9:52:57 PM | | From: Bilow | | | | Hi Michael D. Cummings; Re: "Carl, you're so fixated on Vietnam it has blinded you."
I have a military library of around 2000 books. Damn few of them are on Vietnam.
Re: "This will be no Vietnam."
I agree. The problem is that if I compare this to conflicts that the herd is even less familiar with than Vietnam, my comments go completely over their heads. The recorded history of war on this planet is many thousands of years old. It didn't start in 1966. Human nature is unchanged over that recorded history. That's why it was so easy to predict that the Afghans would welcome us with parades while the Iraqis would shoot at us.
Re: "This is not the Vietnam military, it's far better trained, better equipped and better led."
(1) Saddam's military is better than the Vietcong.
(2) Our military is so good mostly because it is a volunteer force. Unfortunately, the nature of the Iraqi conflict is such that we don't have a large enough volunteer force to deal with the problem. In Vietnam, we had the assistance of the ARVN, but we have no corresponding ally in Iraq. The British are not likely to follow the massive reinforcements we'll have to do. The end result is that in order to stay in Iraq, we will have to bring back conscription, and that will lower the quality of our forces. But I agree with you, the quality of our armed forces is now the highest it has ever been. This is the peak.
Re: "Those who fixate on one event in history, and fail to see the changing circumstances will look foolish when this is all over."
The Administration's plans were caused by their fixation on the US military successes in Afghanistan and the Gulf war. This blinded them. What you accuse me of is exactly what the Administration has done. Instead of looking at war as a continuous feature of the human race, with thousands of years of history, they only looked at the two most recent conflicts. Their error is already apparent. No flag waving Iraqis.
-- Carl |
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| To: Dennis O'Bell who wrote (88459) | 3/31/2003 9:53:09 PM | | From: Ilaine | | | | >>The .pdf files are worth a look. <<
Yeah - I am going to bookmark it and link it to all the bozos who keep spouting the party line, "the US was the major supplier of Iraq's weapons." I knew it was total garbage and #1 was the Soviets. Didn't realize how much of it came from France (#2). Very little from the US.
Of course, the ones that keep repeating the same thing over and over again are too lazy to look at .pdf files, and so annoying they're on Ignore, but I'll save it for when the next young gun comes riding in with blazing saddles.
FAQ: Who was the major supplier of arms to Iraq?
Table here - #1 Soviet Union, %57 of share; #2 France, %13 of share; # 3 China, %12 of share; # 4 Czech Republic, %7 of share; #6 Brazil, %4 of share; # 7 Egypt, %2 of share; # 8 Romania, %1 of share; # 9 Denmark, %1 of share; # 10 Libya, %1 of share; # 11 USA, %1 of share.
projects.sipri.se
projects.sipri.se |
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| To: Clarksterh who wrote (88487) | 3/31/2003 9:53:41 PM | | From: michael97123 | | | | Clark,
I have no idea what the truth is in that particular incident. When i first i heard it, it seemed improbable to have a car full of women and children in a war zone not stopping at a roadblock. Also this was in the South, and i am not certain as to what the rules are about women driving or how much opportunity they have to drive. The good news is that i have sarmad and wine on ignore so i dont have to read their insults. Mike
PS From msnbc “They tried to warn the vehicle to stop; it did not stop,” Marine Corps Gen. Peter Pace said on “The News Hour with Jim Lehrer.” “And it was unusual that that vehicle would be full of only women and that the driver was a woman. So we need to find out why it was that they were acting the way they did.”
PPs i stated my reaction to an event i heard on the news at the moment i first heard it because it sounded so improbable. No one wants to minimize tragic loss of life for whatever the reason. I was not making lite of these deaths. I am curious to what the investigation discovers. If it was something different than what it first appears i wonder whether win or sarmad will criticize it. |
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| To: Sun Tzu who wrote (85629) | 3/31/2003 9:54:58 PM | | From: Bilow | | | | Hi Sun Tzu; Re: "There are three major ways to colonize: The way of the Romans, the way of the Persians, and the way of the Vikings."
This is a remarkable comment. I can't believe that I'm the only person replying to you on it. It is my belief that our colonization efforts, if any, should follow the Viking model.
-- Carl |
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| To: Clarksterh who wrote (88486) | 3/31/2003 9:56:55 PM | | From: paul_philp | | | | Clark,
Certainly the author only sees life through the 'Fight the Power' meme. What he doesn't see is that it is a conversation between all sorts of positions and what emerges is the acceptable range of behaviour. A simplistic example is the Rachel Corrie story. Her story went from extreme to extreme before a general consensus emerged.
It's a big topic and I am not doing it justice. Maybe a longer piece later on.
Paul |
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