| To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (150676) | 11/2/2004 6:14:46 PM | | From: Michael Watkins | | | | I can't find a single Arab (of any religious belief) or Muslim in my circle of friends or acquaintances that supports Bush - certainly not on the issue of the Middle East or Iraq in particular.
I'm sure there are some out there that support conservative agendas in general - many immigrant communities are far more socially conservative than their native born neighbors. But when the discussion turns to Iraq, I've yet to find a single person that is willing to support the current crew at the helm. |
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| To: Neocon who wrote (150687) | 11/2/2004 6:16:04 PM | | From: Sun Tzu | | | | | Just applying the heads-I-win-tails-you-lose logic that I have seen applied so often...have a good evening. Should Bush lose, I will regret him not being around to face consequences of his actions...I don't think Kerry will have the balls (or the means) to try Bush and Cheney for misleading and profiteering. |
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| To: Michael Watkins who wrote (150690) | 11/2/2004 6:18:19 PM | | From: Sun Tzu | | | | >> I can't find a single Arab (of any religious belief) or Muslim in my circle of friends or acquaintances that supports Bush
I can. They hate his guts and think he is Israel's stooge and a puppet. But ultimately they don't see enough difference in Kerry to be worth giving up Bush's easy immigration stance. |
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| To: Sun Tzu who wrote (150680) | 11/2/2004 6:20:30 PM | | From: Michael Watkins | | | | It may be like my relatives in Poland -- they report that support for the US within the country remains generally high, but I also know that this support falls off dramatically once people emigrate to the US or Canada (where most of my Polish relatives have settled).
What do "Arab liberals", indeed, Muslims and Arabs of all political persuasions, that live in North America think of Bush now?
I'm led to believe there has been a huge swing of support away from Bush. What was given to the Republican's in 2002 largely on conservative social issues, has been taken away on foreign policy issues and concerns over oppression (patriot act). |
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| To: Win Smith who wrote (150689) | 11/2/2004 6:23:33 PM | | From: Michael Watkins | | | | he inference about US states voting for W seems quite a stretch, given the Sweden thing
Exactly.
Plus if he really wanted to convince people to vote for Nader, he'd have spelled it out. I can't imagine Bin Laden assuming that Arabic interpretations would nuance that one out for him. |
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| To: TimF who wrote (150667) | 11/2/2004 6:33:55 PM | | From: Michael Watkins | | | | CIA Report Proves That Bush War Plan Was Deficient
If you read through the CIA Report on WMD it becomes very obvious that the Bush-approved war plan did not put any special emphasis on securing weapons of mass destruction, or their components, from falling into the hands of terrorists.
Here are but a few extracts, verbatim [except for comments inserted by me from time to time] that show a pattern of theft of materials. In many cases the CIA Iraq Survey Group confirms that materials were stolen *after* Operation Iraqi Freedom was "mission accomplished", thus confirming charges that the Bush admnistration failed to properly plan to secure the country.
I think the failure is more than a staffing issue - more than a complete under-estimation of the challenges at hand - I think the lack of adequate plans to secure WMD or suspected components suggests more than mere incompetance. Congressional Researchers - I hope you are looking at the details that we in the public do not have access to...
* ISG site visits to many locations found not only destruction resulting from Operation Iraqi Freedom, but also looting that rendered many facilities inoperable.
* All of the G&C [guidance and control] systems and related components were stored at the Al Quds Factory of the Al Karamah General Company immediately before OIF. Although some examples of this hardware were recovered, the Al Quds Factory itself has been completely looted and no items remain.
* the Al Quds Factory [Uranium conversion] itself has been completely looted and no items remain.
* The Al Tahadi site was heavily looted after Operation Iraqi Freedom, and no documents or equipment remained at the site.
* An ISG team visited the Al-Nida site in late August 2003 [after Operation Iraqi Freedom] and found that the entire plant had been systematically looted of all equipment, computers, and documents
* In April or May of 2003 [what, no precise record? what kind of specialists are these anyway???], the underground facility adjacent to the main Al-Razi facility was visited and found to have been looted, and equipment was missing. The Iraqi scientist stated that after the CVL demonstration he worked on a barium vapor laser up until Operation Iraqi Freedom. Although Al-Razi was not damaged during Operation Iraqi Freedom, it was heavily looted afterward.
* Warheads and peripheral hardware for brass and recyclable metals are still being looted. [While the ISG team is still doing its survey in 2003!]
* The disposition of the 152mm and/or the 155mm artillery projectiles after the Gulf war is unknown, although it is possible that the rounds remained at the Al Muthanna complex and were looted after OIF.
* Hazim stated that he would not be surprised if smallpox isolates were found in Iraq and identified two culture repositories where viral cultures could be maintained over extended periods of time: Al Dawrah FMDV Plant and the Baghdad CPHL. None were found by ISG. However, the CPHL seed stock repository was reported to have been systemically looted post-OIF
* [At a possible DGS laboratory in Baghdad] During the first exploitation in April 2003, the exploitation team found large quantities of liquid and dry chemicals, equipment, documents, and other materials—some of which were partially destroyed. A visit to the site in July [2003, after O.I.F.] revealed a completely looted warehouse complex with no remaining evidence of chemicals, equipment, or documentation.
And here's the smoking gun, well, one of many as it turns out, as if one is needed:
* Triggered by a series of site exploitations and detentions in March 2004, Iraq Survey Group (ISG) began investigating a network of Iraqi insurgents—referred to as the al-Abud network—who in late 2003 and early 2004 actively sought chemical weapons for use against Coalition Forces. By June 2004, ISG was able to identify and neutralize the chemical suppliers and chemists, including former regime members, who supported the al-Abud network.
It seems that US, pardon, "coalition forces" didn't start proactively start trying to prevent chemical weapons remnants from falling into terrorist hands until this year - 2004 - over a year after the start of the war!!!
Summary:
* Stated purpose of war: To prevent dangerous weapons from falling into the hands of terrorists.
* Was the goal achieved? No.
* Was there a reasonable plan in place to even achieve the goal? No.
Conclusion:
Gross incompetence on the part of war planners and/or by extension a case to start digging for evidence that the real goal of the war was not as stated.
Sources: CIA report on WMD |
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| To: Neocon who wrote (150685) | 11/2/2004 6:46:15 PM | | From: Win Smith | | | | | Yes, there's an election going on, and as near as I can tell, Nadine was trying to spin Bin Laden's statement into a Kerry endorsement. I don't exactly think that efforts of that sort are deserving of a break, today. |
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