| To: arun gera who wrote (12535) | 12/3/2001 1:34:13 PM | | From: Nadine Carroll | | | | The numbers of Palestinians kiled were far more on a weekly basis and overall. Only on the weeks of suicide bombing were less palestinians killed. In the western media, the deaths in Israel are covered in greater detail. I believe the Al-jazeera covers the deaths in Palestine disproportionately. That seems to explain partially the perception of the West and the perception of the Arabs in this conflict.
And on Al Jazeera, the Palestinians died in "martyrdom operations".
Number counts don't tell the whole story. It is fair to ask, how many of the Palestinians died committing acts of violence? If part of your campaign involves riflemen shooting at armored checkposts every night, your casualties are bound to be higher than the other side's.
This doesn't mean that many innocents haven't died too. But not one Palestinian has died because an Israeli took an Uzi to a bus stop and shot everyone in sight. |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last ReadRead Replies (3) |
|
| To: Thomas M. who wrote (12570) | 12/3/2001 1:34:24 PM | | From: ThirdEye | | | | Exactly what is your point, Thomas? That Israel should abjectly absorb suicide bombing of innocents? Or perhaps quietly pack up and find some other home for 15 million? Or give the Golan Hts back to Syria so that Syria can lob artillery whenever they feel like it? Or assimilate all Palestinians who would be such nice people as long as they could continue their campaign to eliminate all jews without interference.
Just what the hell is your point? |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last ReadRead Replies (1) |
|
| To: paul_philp who wrote (12566) | 12/3/2001 1:43:02 PM | | From: Nadine Carroll | | | | Does anybody think that Israel is starting something more decisive than simple retaliations today? It appears as though Sharon has the green light for the first time to do whatever he envisions? What are his goals? Is this his shot? Does he lose credibility if he doesn't win some sort of decisive battle?
Yes, it sound like Sharon got the green light to wage war on Hamas and Islamic Jihad, though not to destroy the PA, which is what he would prefer to do. On second thought, I'm not sure if this is a distinction with a difference any longer. |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last Read |
|
| To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (12575) | 12/3/2001 1:43:33 PM | | From: pie-faced-mutt | | | | "This doesn't mean that many innocents haven't died too. But not one Palestinian has died because an Israeli took an Uzi to a bus stop and shot everyone in sight. "
There is no need to and besides, it is bad form. |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last Read |
|
| To: maceng2 who wrote (12574) | 12/3/2001 1:43:50 PM | | From: Machaon | | | | My point about a mediator is: How do you mediate hate, especially when someone hates someone else solely because of who they are, and not what they do.
Arab hatred of the Jews goes back centuries. The mediator has to get past that, before there can be "lasting" peace in the Middle East. |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last ReadRead Replies (1) |
|
| To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (12575) | 12/3/2001 1:44:04 PM | | From: Thomas M. | | | | But not one Palestinian has died because an Israeli took an Uzi to a bus stop and shot everyone in sight.
I don't know about a bus stop, but how about a mosque?
29 Palestinians were mowed down at a mosque by Baruch Goldstein with a machine gun ( I don't know if it was an Uzi).
ssnp.com
Tom |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last ReadRead Replies (1) |
|
| To: ThirdEye who wrote (12576) | 12/3/2001 1:50:53 PM | | From: Thomas M. | | | | Do these facts have to have a point? My main point is that the Israeli contingent is not honest.
For example:
Or perhaps quietly pack up and find some other home for 15 million?
Why do you propose such a ludicrous idea? Sharon just publicly stated a few weeks ago that he is going to scour the globe for another 1 million people to pull into Israel. Israel is desperately trying to increase its Jewish population. They are doing the exact opposite of what you propose. How about Israel stop with the settlement program? The empty settlements left behind would make a convenient reparations payment to the Palestinians.
Tom |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last Read |
|
| To: Thomas M. who wrote (12580) | 12/3/2001 1:53:24 PM | | From: ThirdEye | | | | | Sure, there are whackos on both sides. Do you suppose Baruch Goldstein was recruited and trained by a secret Israeli organization? Was his act an exrpession of policy? Was he promised glory in death? Was he promised his family would be compensated for his loss? |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last ReadRead Replies (1) |
|
| To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (12575) | 12/3/2001 2:01:16 PM | | From: pie-faced-mutt | | | | Terrorists Poised To Strike Again:
Mossad Agents Arrested In Attempt To Bomb Mexican Congress
From kosmos.uni.cc
11-26-1
From the PGR (Mexican Department Of Justice) official web site comes
an interesting story.
As reported in La Vox De Aztlan, two men, one of them a former Israeli
Colonel and Mossad agent, were arrested INSIDE the Mexican congress
carrying 9mm pistols and dynamite, but were released following intense
pressure from the Israeli Embassy.
Army General and Head of the PGR Releases Two Israelis
Arrested With Guns and Explosives Inside the Mexican Congress
By Ernesto Cienfuegos La Voz de Aztlan
October 15, 2001
LOS ANGELES (ACN) - In a mind-blowing development, La Voz de
Aztlan has learned that Mexican Army General Rafael Marcial Macedo
de la Concha who heads the Procuraduría General de la República
(Mexican Department of Justice) has released the retired Israeli Defense
Forces colonel and presumed MOSSAD agent Salvador Guersson
Smecke and Israeli illegal immigrant Saur Ben Zvi after both had
penetrated the security of the Mexican Congress and where in possession
of guns, hand grenades and explosives.
This morning La Voz de Aztlan had a personal telephone interview with
the Mexican Congressional Press Secretary, Lic. Adriana Lopez, and
verified the arrest of the two Israelis after they had entered through the
highly secured front entrance of the Palacio Legislativo de San Lázaro.
She stated to La Voz de Aztlan that the two terrorists had taken
advantage of a situation that occurred around 1700 hours of Wednesday
October 10 when a large contingent of Sugar Industry Unionists were
entering through the metal detectors. The two Israelis followed about 50
of the unionists to the office of the President of the Mexican Congress
Beatriz Paredes. The two Israelis were first pretending to be press
photographers but called the attention of the sugar unionists because of
their nervous and out of the ordinary behavior. About ten of the unionists
confronted them and observed that they were carrying guns and and what
looked to them to be explosives. They held the two Israelis until Official
Congressional Security personnel took them into custody. The head of
Congressional Security Salvador Alarcón verified that the Israelis had in
their possession nine hand grenades, sticks of dynamite, detonators,
wiring and two 9mm "Glock" automatics.
Mexican Congressional Press Secretary Lic. Adriana Lopez informed La
Voz de Aztlan in the telephone interview that Congressional Security then
turned the terrorists Salvador Guersson Smecke, age 34, and Saur Ben
Zvi, age 27, to the Procuraduría General de la República (Mexican
Department of Justice) which is headed by Mexican Army General Rafael
Marcial Macedo de la Concha. Initial reports by the Procuraduría General
de la República (PGR) were that both Israelis worked for a private
security agency and that they both had gun permits. It turned out that
there is no connection of either suspect to any private security agency.
The PGR has released the retired Israeli I.D.F. colonel with the official
explanation that he had a legal permit to carry a gun. They also released
the illegal Israeli immigrant on about $4000 bail and the case turned over
to the Mexican immigration authorities. Mexican Congressional Press
Secretary Lic. Adriana Lopez was surprised to hear from La Voz de
Aztlan of the release of the two Israelis.
La Voz de Aztlan has also learned that the Israeli Embassy used heavy
handed measures to have the two Israelis released. Very high level
emergency meetings took place between Mexican Secretary of Foreign
Relations Jorge Gutman, General Macedo de la Concha and a top Ariel
Sharon envoy who flew to Mexico City specially for that purpose. Elías
Luf of the Israeli Embassy worked night and day and their official
spokeswoman Hila Engelhart went into high gear after may hours of
complete silence. What went one during those high levels meetings no
ones knows, but many in Mexico are in disbelief at their release. Guns
and any kind of explosive is highly illegal for Mexican citizens and the
fact that these two Israelis had them inside the Mexican Congress makes
their release highly suspect. What is really going on? Jorge Gutman, the
Mexican Foreign Secretary, has very strong Zionist connections and
himself is of Jewish descent. Mexican Army General Macedo de la
Concha has strong connections to the U.S. Military Industrial-Complex
and through this to the Israeli Defense Forces. Have any of these
connections influenced the decision to release the two Zionist terrorists?
The initial arrests of the two Israelis inside the Palacio Legislativo de San
Lázaro made top news on Mexico City television and radio on the
evening of October 10. TV Azteca had extensive coverage on the first
night and on the following day. La Cronica de Hoy Newspaper and El
Universal Newspaper both covered the incident the following two days
but now it seems that there is a lack of reports. The PGR has a Press
Bulletin on their official website at but they have made no updates. No
U.S. media has made any mention, that we know, except one by
USAJewish.com this Sunday at: Pravda of Moscow has a note of the
initial La Voz de Aztlan article at:
What were the Israelis up to? We think we know. The Vicente Fox
government has been very careful of involving Mexico in a war against
Islam. The Mexican population as well as the two major opposition
political parties, the PRI and the PRD will not allow it. President Bush
and the U.S. Zionists want Mexico fully involved in the war principally
because if things get tough in the middle east and the oil rich Arabs leave
the coalition, the U.S. military machine is going to need alternative
sources of oil and PEMEX is just across the border. We believe that the
two Zionists terrorist were going to blow up the Mexican Congress. The
second phase was to mobilize both the Mexican and US press to blame
Osama bin Laden. Most likely then Mexico would declare war on
Afghanistan as well, commit troops and all the oil it could spare to
combat Islamic terrorism.
COMMENT
From Mario Andrade
mario.mx@verizon.net
11-26-1
Hello Jeff,
I want to congratulate you in every way for posting the articles on your
website. When I read the article about the Mossad agents caught trying to
bomb the Mexican congress, I almost jumped out of my chair. I was
SHOCKED. I couldn't believe it, so I went to the PGR website and
verified it.
IT'S ALL TRUE! It's 100% accurate! You've nailed it! The guys that
learned about this should get an award for reporting it. This proves your
suspicions about Mossad involvement, or at least knowledge about 9-11.
Do you remember the group of Israelis taking pictures and video from a
roof top as the twin towers were burning to the ground? I could be
wrong, but I believed you mentioned that during a Barry Chamish's
appearance in your program.
WHERE ARE THE MAJOR NEWS NETWORKS ON THIS? They are
all too busy promoting the Time-Warner-AOL-CNN Harry Potter movie
or reporting on "the anthrax scare" (they call it scare because they're the
ones scaring people). It's amazing how we can better rely on websites like
yours for accurate news. It seems like we need to dig the truth out on our
own all the time.
This media blackout is nothing less than the New World Order at work.
Here we have two Israelis with explosives, grenades and guns caught
inside the legislative chamber of the Mexican congress, and yet,
NOTHING is mentioned in the news; not even in Mexico.
Without a doubt, these two suspects will be released. The PGR (Attorney
General) website in Mexico does not list in "plain language" the charges
for the suspects. It lists the "penal codes". They are the following:
Violation of articles 123 and 143 of the General Law of Population in
accordance with the sixth and seventh dash 1, 8, 9, and 13 of the federal
penal code. This means that unless you're a lawyer in Mexico, you won't
have any clue as for what they mean. This is how they let criminals go
free all the time. Those codes could be bogus or made up, but the
population is so dumbed down and ignorant that they will buy this
without bothering to question it.
THIS IS WHERE WE'RE HEADING IN AMERICA: TOTAL
IGNORANCE AND SUBMISSIVENESS OF THE POPULATION
AND TOTAL CONTROL OF THOSE IN POWER.
Please keep up the excellent work and thanks for informing us about
what's really going on.
Best wishes,
Mario Andrade |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last ReadRead Replies (2) |
|
| To: ThirdEye who wrote (12582) | 12/3/2001 2:03:21 PM | | From: Thomas M. | | | | Sure, there are whackos on both sides.
Interesting, when Nadine proposed that Israelis don't shoot innocents with machine guns, you didn't disagree with her. I have to dig out the dirty facts for you to concede that there is violence on both sides.
Did you know that 7% of the Israeli population considered Goldstein's attack to be "justified"? And one third of the population "understood" his actions.
washington-report.org
Was he promised glory in death?
Yes.
<<< He was told by his spiritual mentors that if he were killed while serving in Shabak, he would attain martyrdom and his soul would be instantly transported to paradise. His pious father, Dr. Yehezkel Cohen, a well-known religious educator, told the press that this must actually have happened. Dr. Cohen also told the press that his son often had assured him that Shabak activities were perfectly humane and beneficent to the Arabs, and that Jews "who slander Shabak" were traitors.
Tom |
| | Foreign Affairs Discussion Group | Political Discussion ForumsShare | RecommendKeepReplyMark as Last ReadRead Replies (1) |
|
| |
