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   PastimesDISCUSSION OF DOCTRINE of CHRISTIAN CHURCHES


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To: Stan who wrote (431)12/21/2010 2:56:15 PM
From: Stan
   of 454
 
Irenaeus on Antichrist's number: (Against Heresies: Book 5, chapter 30)

Chapter XXX.-Although Certain as to the Number of the Name of Antichrist, Yet We Should Come to No Rash Conclusions as to the Name Itself, Because This Number is Capable of Being Fitted to Many Names. Reasons for This Point Being Reserved by the Holy Spirit. Antichrist's Reign and Death.

1. Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end),-I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.] Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be granted them by God. But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory, lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who confided in them. Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture, under that such a person must necessarily fall. Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.

2. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. This, too, the apostle affirms: "When they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction shall come upon them." And Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, "We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fulness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein." This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved.

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From: Stan12/21/2010 5:07:42 PM
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One thing I have found, to my surprise, is that if you read the very early fathers/elders of the church, the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture is totally absent from their writings. Yet, I had accepted its strong probability for a long time. It isn't that those early writers ignored the subject of the resurrection and end times. In fact, it was a common topic in their works. It has to set you thinking. How in the world would they not know of the pretrib rapture/resurrection if that is what the apostles taught? I simply cannot imagine that's possible. One is forced to conclude the doctrine is an innovation.

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To: Stan who wrote (433)12/21/2010 10:18:36 PM
From: Sidney Reilly
   of 454
 
Jesus gives us an explanation of Daniel's 70th week in Matt. 24:1-31 and Jesus definitely says He gathers the elect AFTER the great tribulation. This is virtually ignored by the "pretrib" church today.

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To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (434)12/21/2010 10:38:10 PM
From: Stan
   of 454
 
Yes, and Martha, in responding to Jesus' statement, your brother shall rise again, says, yes, I know he will rise on the last day. Somehow, the last day got stretched into at least a 7 year period in pre-trib logic.

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To: Stan who wrote (435)12/22/2010 12:31:31 PM
From: Sidney Reilly
   of 454
 
Right, the pretribbers stretch the time of the great tribulation to be the entire 7 years of the 70th week. But according to Jesus the GT doesn't start until the abomination of desolation arrives (faking the second coming of Jesus) and sits in the new Temple the Jews are going to build and declares himself to be God. And Daniel says that happens in the middle of the 70th week, not the beginning, so the GT can only be 3 1/2 years long.

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From: long-gone2/11/2011 4:05:31 PM
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Why if the conservative believes in abortion being wrong he wants to have it outlawed and demands it by by protesting and or appealing to others outside a large medical tower which houses over 200 (on 12 floors) medical speciality offices without a single G.P. and only one office of an OB/ GYN?

I really suspect the wife's cardiologist performs about as many abortions as the oncology office on floor one...

I agree with not a thing they say but fully support their right to say it, just wish they weren't taking several rare and valuable parking spaces to speak out..... Then speaking out to some who have more than enough worries piled upon them.

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From: Stan3/26/2011 6:16:11 PM
   of 454
 
Satire exposing modern day sensibilities in many churches about God and spiritual issues:

If Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians was Published in Christianity Today

Posted in: Featured Articles

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Dear Christianity Today:

In response to Paul D. Apostle’s article about the Galatian church in your January issue, I have to say how appalled I am by the unchristian tone of this hit piece. Why the negativity? Has he been to the Galatian church recently? I happen to know some of the people at that church, and they are the most loving, caring people I’ve ever met.

Phyllis Snodgrass; Ann Arbor, MI

————————————————————————

Dear Editor:

How arrogant of Mr. Apostle to think he has the right to judge these people and label them accursed. Isn’t that God’s job? Regardless of this circumcision issue, these Galatians believe in Jesus just as much as he does, and it is very Pharisaical to condemn them just because they differ on such a secondary issue. Personally, I don’t want a sharp instrument anywhere near my zipper, but that doesn’t give me the right to judge how someone else follows Christ. Can’t we just focus on our common commitment to Christ and furthering His kingdom, instead of tearing down fellow believers over petty doctrinal matters?

Ed Bilgeway; Tonganoxie, KS

————————————————————————–

others here:

sacredsandwich.com

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From: long-gone5/19/2011 11:39:26 PM
   of 454
 
Breaking News.

Stop the Presses!

This just in: World to end Saturday May 21 2011! Actually, to be more accurate, the world will only end through the process of Judgment Day for non-believers Saturday and, if correct, the followers of the Word as preached by Gunther Von Harringa will remain in heaven on earth for the next 10000 years with Jesus.

It remains unreported if it is only his followers or all believers, which will be saved. It also unknown if there will or will not be beer in Heaven on earth and if there will be a Republic or State of Texas in the newly constituted heavenly world government.

See Ya’ll Sunday at services.

Richard and family.

Ps – Yes, I was copied on the email.

More “information” at : wecanknow.com

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To: long-gone who wrote (439)5/20/2011 7:00:22 PM
From: Stan
   of 454
 
This goodbye letter has an ominous tone, like he may off himself.

money.cnn.com

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To: long-gone who wrote (439)5/20/2011 7:00:26 PM
From: Stan
   of 454
 
His goodbye letter has an ominous tone, like he may off himself.

money.cnn.com

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