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   Technology StocksCree Inc.


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To: slacker711 who wrote (9845)8/1/2018 3:14:59 PM
From: slacker711
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Infineon is very bullish on SiC over the long-term but it appears that they are seeing push back because of pricing. Very different tone than what STM said.


seekingalpha.com


Reinhard Ploss


Well, I also want to comment on the EV side and the silicon carbide. Considering the situation the automotive industry is in, the hybridization and to a certain degree other EVs are facing the expectation of the consumers to get this at a similar price level compared to today’s combustion engines.


And the situation here is that the price negotiations for the IGBT modules always had been very tough. So the competitiveness for silicon carbide is definitely not different, even so there are more people who raise their voice that they can become successful in silicon carbide. But I would say this is still something to come, and the cost situation for silicon carbide is way above the today’s IGBT segment.


So we do not expect that silicon carbide will make the life more difficult in the EV than it is today. The ADAS development, maybe, Helmut, you comment on the margin development of ADAS.

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To: slacker711 who wrote (9856)8/1/2018 9:27:33 PM
From: slacker711
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Infineon held an analyst day in June that had a large amount of focus on SiC. They suggest that the main inverter will convert to SiC starting in 2020, but Tesla has already done that. One interesting comment was that they saw the tipping point for SiC into EV happened with car batteries above 50kWh. Something to watch as we hear more EV announcements.

infineon.com


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To: slacker711 who wrote (9857)8/1/2018 10:39:45 PM
From: Lou Weed
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Thanks for the slides. Infineon know the power semi market better than anyone. Thank goodness the govt put a halt on the Wolfspeed acquisition. As long as Cree steers the ship correctly, Wolfspeed's product value will present significant upside to us shareholders.

Note the slide that states "Modules will be preferred form factor in SiC mass market". Cree is not a module manufacturer - will be interesting to see how they strategize going forward. Will it be a chip sales business model or a partnership with one of the main module suppliers or both??

BB

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From: slacker7118/3/2018 10:11:24 AM
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Cree initiated with a $61 price target by Canaccord Genuity.

Slacker

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To: Lou Weed who wrote (9858)8/3/2018 10:48:41 AM
From: slacker711
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Note the slide that states "Modules will be preferred form factor in SiC mass market". Cree is not a module manufacturer - will be interesting to see how they strategize going forward. Will it be a chip sales business model or a partnership with one of the main module suppliers or both??

Cree does offer power modules, though I dont have a good enough understanding of the end markets to know whether they are competitive or offer a broad enough product line.

wolfspeed.com

Fundamentally, I feel like SiC has hit an inflection point. The number of companies talking about it has absolutely exploded over the last year. However, I still need a better idea of the puts and takes between SiC substrate sales and device sales for Cree. Do they have the expertise to compete with companies like STM in power and Qorvo in RF? How much of an advantage will their internal device teams have versus their SiC substrate customers?

and how far along are their SiC substrate competitors? They have the field to themselves for twenty plus years so they should have a large technical lead but the fast growth of the market will attract a lot of R&D/capex.

Slacker

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From: slacker7118/5/2018 9:17:46 AM
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Two Cree engineers looked at the performance and economics of using a SiC MOSFET module from Cree versus an Silicon module from Infineon. Interesting to note that the SiC module is $200 or 4x the price of the silicon module.

wolfspeed.com

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To: slacker711 who wrote (9860)8/5/2018 11:02:00 AM
From: Lou Weed
1 Recommendation   of 10477
 
Correct, they do offer power modules but they're in 20 - 30yr old housing technology. They may be optimized internally to reduce parasitics but to get full optimization of SiC technology you need specialized product designed from the ground up. One of the main advantage of SiC is increasing system switching frequency while keeping the same or better efficiency of existing tech thereby reducing overall power density. For any system beyond the ~2kW level you really need modules - discretes are limited power wise. Check out Infineon, Semikron, Fuji Semi, Mitsubishi, Vincotech module offerings to get an idea of the kind of competition they are up against.

Not too sure on the competition SiC substrate situation. I've heard the Chinese are getting better and the Germans and Japanese are busy in the material materials area too.

BB

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To: slacker711 who wrote (9861)8/5/2018 11:22:51 AM
From: Lou Weed
1 Recommendation   of 10477
 
Economics are continually changing - not sure when this paper was written? That Inf module in high volume production would probably be ~$25....closer to 8-9 time multiplier. The motor drive world is very very cost sensitive and of course, the big market for these module guys. SiC has been adopted by Solar and now soon the EV charging market. Value add is there now.

Value add for the motor drive guys for full SiC (MOSFET + Diode) is still more than a decade away IMO. The motor drive world will start off with their hybrid module offerings (Si IGBT + SiC diode). Eliminating diode recovery loss can enable at least a doubling of the switching frequency to reduce overall power density without sacrificing efficiency. Plus it will help reduce magnetics size (inductors) for extra added cost savings.

BB

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To: Lou Weed who wrote (9863)8/7/2018 10:01:05 AM
From: slacker711
1 Recommendation   of 10477
 
Economics are continually changing - not sure when this paper was written? That Inf module in high volume production would probably be ~$25




The paper was written in July 2015. I hadnt realized it was that old and will try and highlight the age of the links as I continue to dig through the SiC story.

Slacker

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To: slacker711 who wrote (9864)8/7/2018 10:02:14 AM
From: slacker711
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Tweets from a breakfast interview with Gregg Lowe.

twitter.com

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