To: Pareto who wrote (109) | 10/22/2000 8:10:37 AM | From: levy | | | pareto that's a great site.......no way I can figure out by reading that stuff if the patents are any good....proof of their value remains the fact that DC paid big time for right to use this stuff.........Dc's product seems identical to what paperclick was doing so that is probably why they had to pay up..........whether others will have to pay up who are not so closely related to Neom's stuff remains to be seen......could you imagine the value of NEOM if it turns out that a scanner built into a cellphone would need NEOM.........I asked a very specific question to the CEO during that media conference about this ...I asked, "What is it that Neom has that requires others to pass thru Neom for the simple reading of a bar code and converting it to a url".....He gave a very long answer most of which didn't address the question but in the middle of all this he said something like " it might not cover what you ask"....so my conclusion is the patents probably won't cover stuff like what infospace is trying to do with commerce over cellphones but none the less I am sticking the course to see if I am wrong as the upside seems so great it is worth the chance to see what happens |
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To: levy who wrote (110) | 10/22/2000 8:53:30 PM | From: Pareto | | | I did't read much about the patents, but using common sense I think these are the elements considering:
Step 1: Build up a database with information on products, articles and programs to link to, and put them in a database webserver. -> Common technology Similar to yellow pages or a shopping engine.
Step 2: Generating a barcode for an article, product or TV-program -> Common technology e.g. the 128 standard allows all kinds of barcodes to be generated. Even the UPC or EAN codes can be applied.
Step 3: Printing a barcode -> Common technology
Step 4: Reading of barcode by scanner -> Common technology The barcode is translated into ascii-code
Step 5: Sending the code to the database webserver. The webserver sends a page back to the user browser with a 'redirect' command in it. This brings the user to the article or product. -> Common technology But here is the trick. Which webserver will be connected to??? Three options: a. The barcode scanner has a predefined webserver. b. The PC, telephone, palm pilot or other device have the webserver defined c. The user selects the webserver.
Celular phone companies would be able to predefine the webserver. Like they do now with the info-offerings through the internet. Such as the WAP platforms of Infospace. This is the same as an ISP who let users connect to their portal. As you know, users with more experience change the default page to their favorite portal or create their own startpage.
I just wanted to show my opinion that I don't think their is any step were you need some special technology which can be patented. You may be able to patent a certain combination of steps. But their are many other methods to get the same result. Compare to the 1-click buying patent of Amazon. That does not prevent others to sell over the internet.
The most difficult step is step 1. How to create and maintain a global database with all products and information that has a barcode on it. This is a discussion we had earlier. Inktomi is trying it with the shopping engine. Infospace with their yellow pages. Udex with their very structured product database. Arriba in the B2B field. Agile Software Corp. offers applications for synchronization of codes in the supply chain. Commerce One (through their merger with Appnet) is developing an internet application for the product databases of the United Code Council. uccnet.org uc-council.org
It is very, very difficult to maintain a complete, up to date database with information of all suppliers (of the world).
This leads to a more philosophical question: is it possible to direct all information through one channel, controlled by a technology company that maintains the key? The answer is that one single company can at best manage only part of the information. And if they manage a large part, most probably they will have this lead only for a short time, as competitive offerings will emerge. The internet shows that the most power lies in the co-existence of multiple offerings. Of technology and information. The UCCnet approach is based on cooperation between all the parties involved. It is impossible that one company defines a standard that implies that others have to pay a fee to use this standard.
Besides neom, there are others operationg in this field, like Barpoint: siliconinvestor.com
Barcodes will become much more important in the near future. It is an easy and reliable and low cost coding system. Each product may get its own portal on the web, reachable through its barcode. But most likely this will be enabled through existing databases that add an URL field next to the barcode field.
Without doubt it is an interesting field. Neomedia has its roots in only a small area of it. Automatization and printing technology.
Barcode reading seems to be a standard input technology where no fees can be applied. Managing a product database does allow to apply fees. Neom has tried to set up the paperclick database, but without much success. Now it is licensing its technology. It may work short term, but long term I don't see how they get a stronghold on the market.
Kind regards, Pareto |
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To: levy who wrote (110) | 10/22/2000 9:22:11 PM | From: Pareto | | | levy, I suggest you to download the "e-CommerceTrends-AMR Research" from this page: uccnet.org it is good reading about the near B2B future.
One of the conclusions: "Momentum is more important than precision"
That, apart from having a double meaning, resembles the Pareto principle: in 20% of time spend, you get 80% of results.
Kind regards, Pareto |
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To: Pareto who wrote (111) | 10/22/2000 9:37:38 PM | From: levy | | | That is a fabulous post but I have but one question......if all that stuff is "common" and I agree that it is......why would you say did DC have to buy in? ....
I''ll stab at what I think is your answer and then shoot it down....
Neom was able to get a patent because it used new paperclick codes which wasn't so "common" and involved the use of a combination of a group of common methods which when grouped together using the new paperclick codes were deemed by the patent office as unique.
DC probably just ignored Neom but then when it came to do business were faced with a threat to be sued so they tried to patent their system but then it was so identical to NEOM it got turned down.....if this is the case what other company would be faced with the same problem????....Only those trying to establish their own paperclick like code entry system. No other companies are trying to do this...... These other companies can tie into "common" code systems like barcodes, upc codes ,etc on existing products and then they will be free and clear of NEOM
so thats your answer but then the question is why didn't DC try to establish their own coding system?
There must be a higher cost to deal with other establishing coding systems than setting up your own new system or dealing with a little comany like NEOM.........I don't know but until you can give a fool proof answer as to why DC signed up that indicates to me also why others might not have to sign up as well I will stick on board this bet. |
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To: Pareto who wrote (112) | 10/23/2000 11:06:43 AM | From: levy | | | The testing grounds on the value of the patents will be played out with "barpoint"......barpoint's primary method is using upc barcodes not paperclick like codes.......if NEOM can force them to some terms then their patents are likely to be broad enough to cover lots of stuff people want to do.....so for now it is a victory with DC but still in my mind a limited one as no other company is doing what DC was doing as far as I can see. |
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To: levy who wrote (113) | 10/23/2000 12:10:22 PM | From: Pareto | | | levy, if you define "levycodes" as a standard, you may get a patent as well. Then you only have to get it used globally by others and charge a minimal fee.
some questions to you: - why DC did not buy Neom when its market cap was only 80M last week, buy did they sign a agreement to purchase 100M of license rights?
- The deal says: "NeoMedia has also issued Digital:Convergence warrants to purchase 1.4 Million shares of NeoMedia stock." That would be 10% of outstanding stock. Based on last weeks share price that would be worth around 7 million dollars. I bet that the hard cash amount for the first two years is around that figure. In that case it is a swap of interests. My question is, if you sum both sides of the deal, what is the net value of the deal and who is getting the benefits? Therefor you need to know the details and the time conditions of the deal. Hard cash now is much more valuable than a general revenue sharing agreement 10 years from now. It seems to me that it is an agreement to get volume.
- the license fees for the third quarter were only 117K, it may not even be related to paperclick. siliconinvestor.com "Net sales were $4.0 million, compared to $5.0 million for the same quarter of 1999. NeoMedia reported a net loss of $3.6 million." The cash position end of September was $ 3.403 So this quarter we will know the future of Neomedia. The license fee has to increase. If not, they will be out of cash end of the year. Maybe the DC deal is a form of selling part of the company to get new cash.
What do you think? |
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To: levy who wrote (114) | 10/23/2000 12:31:40 PM | From: Pareto | | | levy,
if you analyze their third quarter results, you see that their core business is generating a gross loss as well.
They resell and integrate systems. That means, you buy and resell and in between, you add value. They sold for 354K less than they bought their goods. siliconinvestor.com
Value of goods bought: 4.007 Value of goods sold: 3.653 Gross loss: 354
Other revenue: License fees: 117 Service fees: 279
Total gross profit: 42
Operating cost: 3.597
Net loss: 3.555
The announcement does not include any explanation why they are reselling products at a loss.
Be careful
Kind regards, Pareto |
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To: Pareto who wrote (118) | 10/31/2000 9:02:35 PM | From: levy | | | pareto when you get a chance could you tell me what you think of this filling......under section 3.3 there are some comments which suggest to me they have another deal with symbol and motorola el al in the works..what do you think? If so that would be big no?
freeedgar.com
after hitting the link hit body
here is a reference to a new company which says the same names as in the filings
connectthings.com Thursday June 15, 7:30 am Eastern Time Company Press Release Motorola, Symbol Technologies, Connect Things and AirClic Form New Company To Drive the Growth of E-Commerce Through One-Scan Access to the Internet SCHAUMBURG, Ill. and HOLTSVILLE, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 15, 2000-- Symbol Bar Code Scanning Technology in Wireless Phones, Cable TV Set-Top Terminals and Internet-Enabled Devices Manufactured by Motorola and Others Will Offer People Easier Way to Receive Information and Services, Buy Products and Pay Bills Soon, surfing the World Wide Web and ordering items on the Internet will be just a scan away. Motorola, Inc. (NYSE: MOT - news), Symbol Technologies, Inc. (NYSE: SBL - news), Connect Things, Inc., an affiliate of LM Ericsson AB (NASDAQ: ERICY - news), and AirClic, Inc. announced today that they have entered into memoranda of understanding and intend to invest up to an aggregate of $500 million to form a new company that will drive e-commerce growth through one-scan access to the Internet. By creating a unique registry of Web codes, which are bar codes containing instructions for executing exact tasks, the new company will enable Motorola and other companies' wireless phones, cable TV set-top terminals, and other Internet-enabled appliances to access the Internet via Symbol bar code scanning technology. Web codes will be embedded on products, in publications including brochures and company advertisements, and on television. By scanning a Web code with a bar code-enabled Internet device, people will be connected directly to Web sites to order products, find information, and manage everyday tasks and transactions. As people scan Web codes with these new Internet devices, information will be sent instantly to the new company's Web code registry, which interprets the nature of the inquiry and delivers corresponding information to users. The information will include product-ordering links, promotional offers, downloads for music, product usage and service data, as well as cross references to other applicable Internet sites. Users will get transparent, universal access to products and services. While the messages traverse the Internet, the Internet becomes completely invisible. The system will also support ``Internet-enhanced'' standard UPC and EAN bar codes already positioned on millions of products worldwide. By supporting an open platform architecture, the companies expect there will be interest in the service from many Internet-device manufacturers which, in turn, will drive mass volume of consumer devices in the marketplace and widespread application of Web codes to products, literature and advertising.
airclic.com |
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