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   Non-TechAirline Discussion Board

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To: Sam who wrote (1681)12/15/2021 10:13:08 AM
From: Moonray
2 Recommendations   of 1814
Airline CEOs face Senate panel over flight
cancellations after taking $54 billion in taxpayer aid

o~~~ O

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From: Sam12/15/2021 10:22:00 PM
1 Recommendation   of 1814
U.S. airlines warn 5G wireless could wreak havoc with flights
Reuters December 15, 2021 08:41:00 PM ET

WASHINGTON, Dec 15 (Reuters) - Major U.S. air carriers warned on Wednesday that plans by wireless carriers to use spectrum for 5G wireless services starting Jan. 5 could disrupt thousands of daily flights and cost air passengers $1.6 billion annually in delays.

AT&T and Verizon Communications must delay the plans to use C-Band spectrum for 5G wireless services, United Airlines Chief Executive Scott Kirby said following a U.S. Senate Commerce Committee hearing, saying it could delay, divert or cancel about 4% of daily flights and impact hundreds of thousands of passengers.

"It would be a catastrophic failure of government," Kirby told reporters.

The aviation industry and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) have raised concerns about potential interference of 5G with sensitive aircraft electronics like radio altimeters

Last week, the FAA issued new airworthiness directives warning that interference from 5G wireless spectrum could result in flight diversions, but did not quantify the impact.

"Coming Jan. 5 -- unless something changes -- we will not be able to use radio altimeters at 40-something of the largest airports in the country," Kirby said. "It is a certainty. This is not a debate."

Kirby said it would mean that at major U.S. airports in the event of bad weather, cloud cover or even heavy smog "you could only do visual approaches essentially."

Trade group Airlines for America (A4A) said Wednesday that if the FAA 5G directive had been in effect in 2019, "approximately 345,000 passenger flights, 32 million passengers, and 5,400 cargo flights would have been impacted in the form of delayed flights, diversions, or cancellations."

Southwest Airlines' chief executive, Gary Kelly, told the Senate hearing that if the FAA directive takes effect it "would be a significant setback" to its operations.

The wireless industry defended the technology.

"The aviation industry's fearmongering relies on completely discredited information and deliberate distortions of fact," CTIA, a wireless trade group, said.

It said that 5G operates safely and without causing harmful interference to aviation operations in nearly 40 countries around the world.

The Biden administration is eager to see the issue resolved. White House National Economic Council director Brian Deese met with Federal Communications Commission Chair Jessica Rosenworcel and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg on the issue Wednesday, sources told Reuters. The White House and the Transportation Department did not comment.

Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn at the hearing urged airlines to work with the wireless carriers to reach agreement.

Rosenworcel, who did not comment Wednesday, has said she believes the issues can be resolved and spectrum safely used.

In addition to agreeing to delay the commercial launch of C-band wireless service until Jan. 5, AT&T and Verizon in November adopted precautionary measures for six months to limit interference.

Aviation industry groups said they were insufficient to address air safety concerns and have made a counterproposal.

United's Kirby said the FCC and FAA "need to get in a room and talk to each other and solve the problem," adding that the issue "cannot be solved on the back of airlines."

A4A said the FAA directive would "materially disrupt airline operations" and said cargo operators estimate it "would have cost them $400 million annually."

The group said "the annual impact cost to passengers to be approximately $1.59 billion" of travel delays.

Wireless carriers have shown no interest in further delays to using the spectrum, which the industry paid more than $80 billion to acquire.

The FAA directives order revising airplane and helicopter flight manuals to prohibit some operations requiring radio altimeter data when in the presence of 5G C-Band wireless broadband signals.

The FAA plans to issue further notices to airlines before Jan. 5 offering more detail on the potential interference and is in discussion about which altimeters could be used under the current mitigation plans.

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To: Sam who wrote (1683)12/16/2021 10:11:46 AM
From: Art Bechhoefer
2 Recommendations   of 1814
The spectrum bands used by 5G are different and separate from the wave bands used by aircraft equipment. The problem is not one of spectrum allocation but revolves around ancient, outdated equipment on aircraft that do not have modern filters to prevent contamination from nearby 5G spectrum. The aircraft industry has for decades been slow to adopt the latest and best instrumentation, and this is simply one more example of the industry trying its hardest to avoid spending one extra cent on updating its own equipment.


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To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (1684)12/16/2021 10:40:13 AM
From: Moonray
1 Recommendation   of 1814
...and this is simply one more example of the industry trying its hardest to avoid spending one extra cent on updating its own equipment.
I doubt they feel they even have that extra cent.
Last year was a lousy year and probably that extra
cent went to the airlines' officers' payay.

Delta's CEO was scrambling to get his due:
As Chief Executive Officer at DELTA AIR LINES INC, Edward H. Bastian
made $17,291,985 in total compensation. Of this total $945,833 was received
as a salary, $3,516,987 was received as a bonus, $4,125,096 was received
in stock options, $8,375,463 was awarded as stock and $328,606 came from
other types of compensation.

o~~~ O

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From: Moonray12/16/2021 11:59:03 AM
   of 1814
Cruz flies UAL all the time. Wants more for his money.
Ted Cruz lambasts CEO at hearing over vaccine mandate

o~~~ O

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To: OldAIMGuy who wrote (1680)12/17/2021 5:57:00 PM
From: Moonray
2 Recommendations   of 1814
Southwest Airlines CEO Kelly Tests Positive for Covid-19
Other executives at the hearing included American Airlines
Group Inc. CEO Doug Parker, United Airlines Holdings Inc.
CEO Scott Kirby and Delta Air Lines Inc. Chief of Operations
John Laughter. More at: Message 33624561

o~~~ O

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From: TimF12/21/2021 11:08:36 PM
1 Recommendation   of 1814
How Airlines Quietly Became Banks

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From: Sam12/23/2021 8:45:58 PM
2 Recommendations   of 1814
United Airlines Holdings Inc. is canceling dozens of flights over the holiday weekend, as a surge of Covid-19 cases impacts crews, and Delta Air Lines Inc. also cited the variant as a factor behind a number of cancellations.

At both airlines, the cancellations account for a relatively small share of planned flying.

United has canceled about 131 flights scheduled for Friday, about 7% of its planned schedule, and about 28 that were slated for Sunday, according to FlightAware, a flight tracking site.

United said it was scrubbing some flights as a proactive step in an effort to minimize last-minute disruptions, as some pilots and flight attendants won't be able to work because of Covid-19 infection or exposure.

"The nationwide spike in Omicron cases this week has had a direct impact on our flight crews and the people who run our operation," United said in a statement.

A United spokeswoman said the carrier is taking steps such as using larger aircraft and rerouting pilots to cover flying.

Delta said there are multiple factors behind its decision to proactively cancel some flights in the coming days, including the impact of the Omicron variant and potential bad weather in some areas.

"Delta teams have exhausted all options and resources -- -- including rerouting and substitutions of aircraft and crews to cover scheduled flying -- -- before canceling around 90 flights for Friday," the airline said in a statement.

Airlines have said they expect this week and next to be among the busiest since before the pandemic. U.S. airports have been bustling even as restaurants, entertainment venues, and other businesses have started to feel the effects of the surging case numbers.

Other carriers have cautioned in recent days that there could be worker shortages that disrupt operations, as the Omicron variant races across the U.S. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention currently recommends that fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections remain isolated for 10 days -- -- something that the chief executives of Delta and JetBlue Airways Corp. have asked to shorten.

Airlines for America, a trade group that represents major carriers including United, Delta and JetBlue, echoed that request in another letter Thursday.

"That workforce is essential to enable Americans who need to travel domestically or internationally and to keep cargo supply chains operational," A4A CEO Nick Calio wrote to CDC Director Rochelle Walensky. "As with healthcare, police, fire and public transportation workforces, the Omicron surge may exacerbate personnel shortages and create significant disruptions to our workforce and operations."

The CDC on Thursday updated its guidance to recommend that healthcare workers with Covid-19 who don't have symptoms can return to work after seven days with a negative test and that isolation times can be further cut if there are staffing shortages. The agency specified that its new guidelines apply only to healthcare workers.

Several carriers were already dealing with labor shortages, as they restored flights this year, though United has largely avoided many of those problems.

United was among the first major U.S. companies to impose a strict vaccine mandate on its workforce. The airline has said that the most of its 67,000 U.S. employees are vaccinated, including all its customer-facing workers, while 2,000 requested exemptions for medical or religious reasons. Delta has imposed a $200 monthly surcharge for unvaccinated workers and has also said the most of its workforce is vaccinated.

Write to Alison Sider at

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To: Sam who wrote (1689)12/24/2021 5:14:12 AM
From: Glenn Petersen
   of 1814
More than 1,600 Christmas Eve flights are canceled globally amid the spread of Omicron.

New York Times
December 24, 2021

Thousands of would-be travelers received the same troubling message on Thursday: a last-minute cancellation of their Christmas Eve flight because of the recent spike of Omicron cases.

United Airlines canceled at least 150 flights scheduled to leave dozens of airports on Friday — along with 44 more that were supposed to take off on Saturday, according to Flight Aware. Other airlines, including Delta, JetBlue and Allegiant, did the same.

In Australia, dozens of flights were also canceled at airports in the major cities of Sydney and Melbourne as coronavirus cases in the country surged to their highest since the start of the pandemic.

The number of cancellations globally as of Friday morning added up to more than 1,600, the Flight Aware website showed.

It was the latest blow to the holiday season, mainly caused by the new and highly transmissible Omicron variant, which now accounts for more than 70 percent of new coronavirus cases in the United States. Nearly 170,000 people are testing positive every day in the country, a 38 percent increase over the last two weeks, according to The New York Times’s coronavirus tracker .

In its statement, United said that Omicron’s “direct impact on our flight crews and the people who run our operation” led to the cancellations. Crew members had been calling in sick, according to a spokesman, Joshua Freed, who said that United alerted customers as soon as it could. And while Mr. Freed said he didn’t expect the airline to cancel more flights, it remained a possibility.

“We are really managing this day by day,” he said. “There may be some more flight cancellations for Saturday. It’s possible.”

In its statement, the airline said it was working to rebook as many people as possible in time for the holidays.

Customers took to social media to air their grievances about the cancellations.

In Australia, which has recorded more than 500 Omicron cases, many airline staff members are unable to work after being identified as close contacts of positive coronavirus cases, airline officials said. Under government requirements, they are required to isolate for seven days.

“A large number of our frontline team members are being required to test and isolate as close contacts given the increasing number of cases in the general community,” a representative for Jetstar Airways said by email on Friday afternoon local time. “As a result, we have had to make some late adjustments to our schedule.”

Eighty flights arriving at and departing on Dec. 24 from Sydney, the country’s most populous city, had been canceled, a spokesman for the airport said, out of a total of 500.

According to Melbourne Airport’s flight-tracking website, more than 70 flights departing or arriving from the airport on Dec. 24 had also been scrapped, out of 700 flights. Brisbane Airport said that 45 flights had been canceled.

Giulia Heyward and Yan Zhuang

Christmas Eve Flights Canceled and Times Square Celebration Scaled Back Amid Omicron - The New York Times (

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To: Glenn Petersen who wrote (1690)12/24/2021 12:18:57 PM
From: S. maltophilia
   of 1814
The worst of it is probably not where expected

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