Politics | Ask Michael Burke


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To: Don Lloyd who wrote (94346)2/3/2002 1:51:56 PM
From: Tommaso   of 132041
 
Not a call: a put. Not a stock. An index. And it's a European-style option.

It's not theoretical.

Look at this table:

quote.cboe.com 

Look at the last put option in the right hand column, the 140 (i.e. 14,000-level) put on the Dow for December, 2003.


Notice the last sale was 34.50 (i.e. $3,450) and the bid/ask makes it worth about 36.50.

With the Dow currently at about 9900, the 140 put would have an intrinsic value of $4,100 if it could be exercised immediately--but it cannot be exercised until December, 2003.

So at the end of trading on Friday, one could probably have bought the put for $450 less than its ultimate intrinsic value.

To realize that value, you would have to hold it about 20 months. Of course you can sell it to someone else any time.

The DJX index calls have a horrendous premium. I wouldn't touch them. Unless we get so far down in a bear market that people are so pessimistic that they are selling them for less than their intrinsic value.

I think these discounts on the DJX puts are in themselves a pretty good measure of just how inflated stock market values and hopes still are.

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To: Don Lloyd who wrote (94346)2/3/2002 1:56:36 PM
From: Tommaso   of 132041
 
I hadn't thought about selling CALLS on the DJX. Someone might make a ton of money doing that. I am not in the league of those who can risk selling naked calls, even of something as insanely priced as these.

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To: Knighty Tin who wrote (94338)2/3/2002 2:27:49 PM
From: Kapusta Kid   of 132041
 
Mike, re Penn hoops, did you know?...

Walt Frazier and Michael Jordan both played for Penn.

Unfortunately for the Quakers, Frazier was not "Clyde" and Jordan was not the guy with the big shoe contract. All was not for naught in PHA, however. Both were first-team all-Ivies. Frazier got the honors back in 88-89 and Jordan made it twice, most recently during the 99-00 season. I guess Columbia needs to find a recruit or two named Kobe or Shaquille. They'll probably do a half-baked job, though, and come up with Kobe Kowalski and Shaquille Schwartz or possibly Ira Garnett<g>.

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To: Tommaso who wrote (94348)2/3/2002 3:27:47 PM
From: ild   of 132041
 
Spread is pretty high on those options. Though not as high as on SOX.

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To: ild who wrote (94351)2/3/2002 4:40:21 PM
From: JHP   of 132041
 
pats money line 100 to make 500
put me down for 200.
go pats!

st louis 700 to make 100..
think buster douglass

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To: ild who wrote (94351)2/3/2002 4:47:32 PM
From: Tommaso   of 132041
 
During active trading hours, the spread at times shrinks a good bit. But all the options I have ever traded have typically had at least a 3% spread. Cheap out-of-the-money options often have spreads of 25% or more. I always use limit orders. But I figure the market makers have got to get their (considerable) cut, or the options wouldn't be there at all.

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To: Kapusta Kid who wrote (94350)2/3/2002 5:03:05 PM
From: Knighty Tin   of 132041
 
Pete, I knew about Michael Jordan, but not about Walt Frazier. Can you imagine Jordan's phone calls. "Hey, could I get a tryout with your CBA team?" "What's your name?" "Michael Jordan." "Yeah, I'll have Red Auerbach get right on that." Click! <g>

How about Magic Berkowitz? <g>

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To: Tommaso who wrote (94345)2/3/2002 5:04:53 PM
From: Knighty Tin   of 132041
 
T, It should and I think it already has. Tyco's recovery had to be at the expense of that big short position.

The problem is, it is localized rallies and will do nothing for the indices.

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To: Knighty Tin who wrote (94355)2/3/2002 5:34:08 PM
From: Tommaso   of 132041
 
I wonder how many people have got wiped out over the past 3-4 years by shorting. I was barely able to maintain what was for me a very large short position on the technology index (XLK). In the end, I made a profit, though not much. I gradually learned how to do much better, first with the leap puts on the comtrash, and then especially by repeatedly shorting and covering the QQQs last year.

If you had asked me five years ago if I would ever be caught shorting anything, unless if might be against the box, I would have said "positively not." But then in 1973 I never thought I would ever use margin--certainly not if call money was around 20%. Then came 1980-82. When the extremes come, the only way to preserve real wealth is to go to the opposite extreme.

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To: Knighty Tin who wrote (94355)2/3/2002 9:20:55 PM
From: tom r. phillips   of 132041
 
Mike et al. -- interesting chart re. S&P p/e history (i saw it posted on "No Clowns" thread):

decisionpoint.com 

Tom

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