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To: iggyl who wrote (125240)2/8/2012 8:11:14 PM
From: Win-Lose-Draw   of 155534
 
But not the price of the entire TV and god forbid a car with a cellular chip in it.

There's little practical difference. The higher the price of the thing being royaled, the lower the royalty rate.

Companies need to charge what they need to charge: It all ends up in the same ballpark, however it's calculated.

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To: rnsmth who wrote (125247)2/8/2012 8:16:07 PM
From: Cogito1 Recommendation   of 155534
 
>>I would like to interrupt this very important discussion with a note about Apple's share price.

It done went up some more today. Did y'all noticify that?<<

I noticed, yes. I noticed the stock closing at very nearly the high of the day, and a new all-time trading and closing high. 476.68. On good volume.

That is really something. Who could have predicted the stock would reach such lofty heights? Oh, wait, I remember. Pretty much all of us.

;-)

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To: iggyl who wrote (125248)2/8/2012 8:16:25 PM
From: Cogito   of 155534
 
Good one.

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To: J.F. Sebastian who wrote (125250)2/8/2012 8:25:27 PM
From: mchjc   of 155534
 
From your link:

. As I've said before, options are a great way to make money but not a great way to keep money.


Somebody should tell that guy about "a great way to keep money" with put option hedges...

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To: mchjc who wrote (125255)2/8/2012 8:31:22 PM
From: J.F. Sebastian   of 155534
 
Somebody should tell that guy about "a great way to keep money" with put option hedges...

Yeah, I thought his take on options was a bit off, but I liked the analysis of AAPL's past corrections.

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To: slacker711 who wrote (125244)2/8/2012 8:35:18 PM
From: pyslent1 Recommendation   of 155534
 
" You could have done that and I guess the price of high-end handsets would fall a bit and the price of the ultra-cheap handsets would have risen (probably significantly on a percentage basis). "


To your point, compare the 3G ipad vs the wifi only ipad ($130). There's probably $30 in component costs in there plus $40 in royalty burden. $70 is more than the total cost of a low end 3G handset.


There's no arguing that the iPhone benefits more from modem functionality than the sub $100 3G feature phone, so it's fair in that respect that the iPhone should contribute more to the compensation towards 3G's inventors.

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To: slacker711 who wrote (125249)2/8/2012 8:39:17 PM
From: iggyl   of 155534
 
The poor have wifi chips in their phones and they aren't supplemented by a royalty scheme like the mobile chips'. I don't think mobile chip development had billions more poured into development than lots of other components that make up cell phones like GPUs, CPUs, screens, they've just carved themselves out a sweet royalty arrangement and without that arrangement prices would adjust and the poor would still have cellphones.

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To: mchjc who wrote (125255)2/8/2012 9:24:59 PM
From: rnsmth   of 155534
 
I dunno,

Up 560% since Jan 2009 mostly on the strength of AAPL LEAPS

Holding ITM Jan 2013's now, and OTM Jan 2014's

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To: Cogito who wrote (125253)2/8/2012 9:38:34 PM
From: Sr K   of 155534
 
I saw about 477.50 AH after some of the earnings reports after the close were considered beats.

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To: iggyl who wrote (125258)2/8/2012 9:39:03 PM
From: slacker711   of 155534
 
The poor have wifi chips in their phones

I think you have skewed sense of what I mean by poor or "ultra-cheap" handsets. I am talking about handsets that sell for anywhere from $20-$50. You can get a color screen, but they certainly dont have WiFi.


I don't think mobile chip development had billions more poured into development than lots of other components that make up cell phones like GPUs, CPUs, screens, they've just carved themselves out a sweet royalty arrangement and without that arrangement prices would adjust and the poor would still have cellphones.


If a GPU or CPU vendor develops a new technique to give them a competitive advantage, they get to monetize that by selling a component that is differentiated from their competitors. Same for things like multi-touch by Apple. That doesnt happen in wireless.


The standards committees require that you license any and all comers for your patents. If Qualcomm develops a new way to more efficiently download data, the method gets incorporated into the standards and all of their competitors get to create chips with the feature.


I absolutely guarantee you that the wireless world would have been different, and worse, if companies couldnt expect to earn a return on their R&D through royalties. I very much doubt that Qualcomm would have licensed their CDMA patents to all comers. We probably would have the balkanized system that I referred to earlier with a small number of suppliers. The systems wouldnt perform as well and the smaller volumes would have meant higher prices across the board.


Been a nice discussion, I'll let this be my last word on the subject.

Slacker

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