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To: Keith Feral who wrote (121873)11/11/2011 2:34:48 PM
From: give_me_a_break
   of 176304
 
"I'd love to see Apple use their cash to buy a company like AMD" - I had thought that AMD sold all of their FABS. The Samsung and asian hold on apple is their ability with semi-conductor process. At AMD they might get design, but would still have to farm out the fab. But maybe I'm wrong and AMD does still include a fab component. I remember I lost a bundle on AMD many years ago when quarter after quarter they could not get their fabs to work. I finally bailed on AMD and some time later I heard they sold off the fab business.

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To: give_me_a_break who wrote (121881)11/11/2011 2:40:49 PM
From: Keith Feral
   of 176304
 
If they don't have any fabs, an AMD acquisition would basically make no sense. One could argue that AMD is still an attractive company, but it probably wouldn't have any strategic fit for Apple.

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To: Stock Puppy who wrote (121880)11/11/2011 2:45:15 PM
From: HerbVic
   of 176304
 
I can't figure out which one of us is serious, you or me.

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To: HerbVic who wrote (121879)11/11/2011 2:49:50 PM
From: stock bull
1 Recommendation   of 176304
 
Ok. Can't argue with that. In any event the stock is taking a real beating.

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From: HerbVic11/11/2011 2:50:46 PM
1 Recommendation   of 176304
 
Logitech says Google TV was a 'big mistake' - latimes.com

Technology
THE BUSINESS AND CULTURE OF OUR DIGITAL LIVES,
FROM THE L.A. TIMES
November 11, 2011 | 9:27 am

Logitech has dropped out of the Google TV revolution.

Logitech Chief Executive Guerrino De Luca is writing off Google TV as a "big mistake" that cost the company more than $100 million in operating profits and is stopping production on its set-top boxes.

<snip>

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To: HerbVic who wrote (121885)11/11/2011 2:54:18 PM
From: Keith Feral
   of 176304
 
Google is infamous for all kinds of tech projects that go nowhere. I remember looking at Google TV the day it came out at Best Buy last year. I was never impressed.

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To: HerbVic who wrote (121878)11/11/2011 2:55:53 PM
From: give_me_a_break
   of 176304
 
"I'll take iPhone singularity over Android's" - I think/hope that will be the key point in the end. I read an interesting article some days ago pointing out the % of total android phones that were running current versions of android OS - it was much less than 50% - with a large number having never been upgraded. Apple can add features to existing phones by updating the software. Android mfgs would rather you bought a new phone to get new features.

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To: HerbVic who wrote (121883)11/11/2011 3:10:36 PM
From: Stock Puppy
   of 176304
 
Well,I'm at launchpoint Earth right now. Bloop.

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To: give_me_a_break who wrote (121887)11/11/2011 3:14:51 PM
From: HerbVic
   of 176304
 
Had difficulty finding that, but I did find part of it, thanks to our tankwatch personage.

Message 27729976


EDIT: Ahah! The invisible link.

theunderstatement.com





Keywords: Android iPhone update history version model

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To: give_me_a_break who wrote (121881)11/11/2011 3:18:57 PM
From: John Koligman
   of 176304
 
They definitely have been scaling back in the fab area. Just the cost of the 'tools' is huge, check out the article on ASML devices at the bottom. Definitely not a 'low barrier to entry' biz!

Regards,
John



by Anand Lal Shimpi on 7/29/2009 4:01:00 AM


Somehow I’d managed to dodge meeting with Globalfoundries since the company was formed earlier this year. For those of you who don’t know, AMD is now officially a fabless semiconductor. AMD provided its two existing fabs to the new company and its partner, ATIC (Advanced Technology Investment Company) provided $6B. ATIC owns 65.8% of the new company and AMD owns the rest, although the two share voting rights.

AMD’s biggest limitation has always been capital. Intel currently has four fabs that will be producing 32nm chips by the end of 2010, AMD currently has (err, had) a single 45nm fab in Dresden. There’s simply no way AMD could compete in the fab game with Intel, so it chose to partner up with ATIC, take $6B of their dollars, and spin off its fab business.


Intel's 32nm fabs for 2010

Until this morning, Globalfoundries only had a single customer - AMD, but that just changed with the announcement that STMicro would be using their fabs. Currently Globalfoundries only has AMD’s two fabs in Dresden, Germany, only one of which is producing modern 45nm SOI wafers. But that too is about to change.


Ceremonial shovels, at a ceremonial ground breaking

My first official meeting with GF came just this past week, in Saratoga County, NY. That’s the site where its brand new post-AMD fab will be constructed and it’s sort of a big deal. I was there for the ceremonial ground breaking, but concrete doesn’t get poured until September, the shell won’t be finished until 2010 and the fab won’t be done until 2011. Globalfoundries won’t be able to ship revenue generating wafers until 2012. But that’s ok, with $6B in the bank and a strong commitment from wealthy ATIC the company couldn’t be in a better place.



On Competing with TSMCAMD couldn’t last competing in the foundry game with Intel. The chart below just shows how expensive it gets:



At 32nm a single fab can cost $4B and in just two years it’ll need to be upgraded (to the tune of around a billion) to support 22nm production. For AMD to support the costs alone and remain competitive with Intel, it would have to virtually own the x86 microprocessor market. Even when AMD held the technology crown, that didn’t happen.

The other alternative is to subsidize the cost of these expensive factories over multiple customers. This is where things get interesting. AMD alone may not be able to fill a fab and make the investment pay off, but AMD + Sony + Toshiba + NVIDIA + etc... can definitely make it work.


Globalfoundries' potential customers and when they plan on going fabless

Currently, fabless semiconductor manufacturers like NVIDIA (and the graphics division of AMD) go to foundry companies like TSMC for their manufacturing needs. In return, they get nearly the latest manufacturing processes (TSMC is at 55nm for volume and 40nm while Intel is at 45nm moving to 32nm) and don’t have to worry about building expensive fabs.

There are problems with this approach. For starters, TSMC has been having troubles moving to 40nm - as you may have heard. Just as important, you don’t get the most advanced manufacturing process technically available. There’s also the fact that TSMC has very little real competition in the industry; all of the GPUs you’re used to reading about are made at TSMC.


The machine to the left of the man's head in the center of the pic is a 193nm lithography machine. We weren't allowed to take close photos, but that machine costs around $75M. Fabs are expensive.

Companies like Sony, Freescale, Samsung, Toshiba and TI all currently fab their own chips. These chips are far less complex than a Nehalem or a Radeon HD 4890 and are thus made on 130nm, 90nm or 65nm processes. The SoC (System on Chip) in the iPhone 3GS is built on a 65nm process by Samsung at its own fab. Being able to move to 45nm or 32nm alongside Intel would give Apple, Samsung and even ARM in general a tremendous competitive boost in the market place. A 45nm iPhone 3GS would use less power or even run at higher clock speeds.

The need for a modern fab partner increases as you look at Intel’s motions towards competing in the smartphone space. Once Atom finally makes its way into smartphones, Intel could have a manufacturing advantage over the ARM partners - allowing for quicker scaling to lower power and higher performance designs. In other words, companies making smartphone SoCs need a good foundry option to compete with Intel.


The Roadmap

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Second article::



EUV tool costs hit $120 million
Mark LaPedus 11/19/2010 6:55 PM EST SAN JOSE, Calif. - Who can afford extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography?

Answer: Very few companies. And the tool price tag is going up. ''EUVL: and the price is? The answer is...$125 million'' per tool, said G. Dan Hutcheson, CEO of VLSI Research Inc., in a report. ''Don’t choke. Years ago, (Risto Puhakka, president of VLSI Research) predicted this with a cost-per-pixel analysis. Everyone thought he was insane at the time, but many are now signing off on production tool orders.''

In 2003, Intel Corp., the proponent of EUV, wanted a per-scanner target cost of $20 million. EUV is supposed to replace today's 193-nm immersion lithography-if or when that runs out of gas.

But EUV has been delayed and R&D costs have exploded, causing tool costs to soar out of control. An ''alpha'' EUV tool from ASML Holding NV went for a reported $60 million per unit. IMEC and Sematech bought the first ''alpha'' tools from ASML.

Still, EUV is gathering momentum. As previously reported, ASML has six orders—and is essentially sold out--of its initial production-like EUV tool, dubbed the NXE:3100, which is due out by year’s end. That tool reportedly sells for about $90 million.

The Dutch company also has 10 orders for its next-generation EUV tool, called the NXE-3300, according to Barclays Capital. Hynix, IMEC, Intel, Samsung, Toshiba and TSMC are the initial customers for ASML Holding NV's ''pre-production'' EUV lithography tool, according to an analyst.

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