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To: give_me_a_break who wrote (121881)11/11/2011 3:18:57 PM
From: John Koligman   of 155540
 
They definitely have been scaling back in the fab area. Just the cost of the 'tools' is huge, check out the article on ASML devices at the bottom. Definitely not a 'low barrier to entry' biz!

Regards,
John



by Anand Lal Shimpi on 7/29/2009 4:01:00 AM


Somehow I’d managed to dodge meeting with Globalfoundries since the company was formed earlier this year. For those of you who don’t know, AMD is now officially a fabless semiconductor. AMD provided its two existing fabs to the new company and its partner, ATIC (Advanced Technology Investment Company) provided $6B. ATIC owns 65.8% of the new company and AMD owns the rest, although the two share voting rights.

AMD’s biggest limitation has always been capital. Intel currently has four fabs that will be producing 32nm chips by the end of 2010, AMD currently has (err, had) a single 45nm fab in Dresden. There’s simply no way AMD could compete in the fab game with Intel, so it chose to partner up with ATIC, take $6B of their dollars, and spin off its fab business.


Intel's 32nm fabs for 2010

Until this morning, Globalfoundries only had a single customer - AMD, but that just changed with the announcement that STMicro would be using their fabs. Currently Globalfoundries only has AMD’s two fabs in Dresden, Germany, only one of which is producing modern 45nm SOI wafers. But that too is about to change.


Ceremonial shovels, at a ceremonial ground breaking

My first official meeting with GF came just this past week, in Saratoga County, NY. That’s the site where its brand new post-AMD fab will be constructed and it’s sort of a big deal. I was there for the ceremonial ground breaking, but concrete doesn’t get poured until September, the shell won’t be finished until 2010 and the fab won’t be done until 2011. Globalfoundries won’t be able to ship revenue generating wafers until 2012. But that’s ok, with $6B in the bank and a strong commitment from wealthy ATIC the company couldn’t be in a better place.



On Competing with TSMCAMD couldn’t last competing in the foundry game with Intel. The chart below just shows how expensive it gets:



At 32nm a single fab can cost $4B and in just two years it’ll need to be upgraded (to the tune of around a billion) to support 22nm production. For AMD to support the costs alone and remain competitive with Intel, it would have to virtually own the x86 microprocessor market. Even when AMD held the technology crown, that didn’t happen.

The other alternative is to subsidize the cost of these expensive factories over multiple customers. This is where things get interesting. AMD alone may not be able to fill a fab and make the investment pay off, but AMD + Sony + Toshiba + NVIDIA + etc... can definitely make it work.


Globalfoundries' potential customers and when they plan on going fabless

Currently, fabless semiconductor manufacturers like NVIDIA (and the graphics division of AMD) go to foundry companies like TSMC for their manufacturing needs. In return, they get nearly the latest manufacturing processes (TSMC is at 55nm for volume and 40nm while Intel is at 45nm moving to 32nm) and don’t have to worry about building expensive fabs.

There are problems with this approach. For starters, TSMC has been having troubles moving to 40nm - as you may have heard. Just as important, you don’t get the most advanced manufacturing process technically available. There’s also the fact that TSMC has very little real competition in the industry; all of the GPUs you’re used to reading about are made at TSMC.


The machine to the left of the man's head in the center of the pic is a 193nm lithography machine. We weren't allowed to take close photos, but that machine costs around $75M. Fabs are expensive.

Companies like Sony, Freescale, Samsung, Toshiba and TI all currently fab their own chips. These chips are far less complex than a Nehalem or a Radeon HD 4890 and are thus made on 130nm, 90nm or 65nm processes. The SoC (System on Chip) in the iPhone 3GS is built on a 65nm process by Samsung at its own fab. Being able to move to 45nm or 32nm alongside Intel would give Apple, Samsung and even ARM in general a tremendous competitive boost in the market place. A 45nm iPhone 3GS would use less power or even run at higher clock speeds.

The need for a modern fab partner increases as you look at Intel’s motions towards competing in the smartphone space. Once Atom finally makes its way into smartphones, Intel could have a manufacturing advantage over the ARM partners - allowing for quicker scaling to lower power and higher performance designs. In other words, companies making smartphone SoCs need a good foundry option to compete with Intel.


The Roadmap

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Second article::



EUV tool costs hit $120 million
Mark LaPedus 11/19/2010 6:55 PM EST SAN JOSE, Calif. - Who can afford extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography?

Answer: Very few companies. And the tool price tag is going up. ''EUVL: and the price is? The answer is...$125 million'' per tool, said G. Dan Hutcheson, CEO of VLSI Research Inc., in a report. ''Don’t choke. Years ago, (Risto Puhakka, president of VLSI Research) predicted this with a cost-per-pixel analysis. Everyone thought he was insane at the time, but many are now signing off on production tool orders.''

In 2003, Intel Corp., the proponent of EUV, wanted a per-scanner target cost of $20 million. EUV is supposed to replace today's 193-nm immersion lithography-if or when that runs out of gas.

But EUV has been delayed and R&D costs have exploded, causing tool costs to soar out of control. An ''alpha'' EUV tool from ASML Holding NV went for a reported $60 million per unit. IMEC and Sematech bought the first ''alpha'' tools from ASML.

Still, EUV is gathering momentum. As previously reported, ASML has six orders—and is essentially sold out--of its initial production-like EUV tool, dubbed the NXE:3100, which is due out by year’s end. That tool reportedly sells for about $90 million.

The Dutch company also has 10 orders for its next-generation EUV tool, called the NXE-3300, according to Barclays Capital. Hynix, IMEC, Intel, Samsung, Toshiba and TSMC are the initial customers for ASML Holding NV's ''pre-production'' EUV lithography tool, according to an analyst.

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To: HerbVic who wrote (121889)11/11/2011 4:16:58 PM
From: give_me_a_break   of 155540
 
"Had difficulty finding that" - yes that is the exact article I was referring to. I think this is important when you think about the long term value proposition iPhone offers....of course its a marketing challenge to communicate.


Thanks for digging that up.

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To: Murrey Walker who wrote (121864)11/11/2011 5:23:38 PM
From: Cogito   of 155540
 
>>Applecare will replace TWO (2) broken iPhone 4s units for $49.00 each under the current contract.


At least that's what they told me.<<



Nothing like getting one's facts from the original source, eh? This is new. Thanks for letting us know.

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To: Cogito who wrote (121892)11/11/2011 5:31:26 PM
From: Murrey Walker   of 155540
 
Nothing like getting one's facts from the original source, eh? This is new. Thanks for letting us know.

You're welcome, but I spake a partial truth.

You must enroll in what I believe is called Applecare Plus. It's a $99.00 agreement. I didn't ask about the details of plain Applecare.

I'm hoping that my "splash" case will keep my claims down, though. ;-)

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From: jeftuxedo11/11/2011 5:36:40 PM
3 Recommendations   of 155540
 
"All of Hong Kong sold out of iPhone 4S in three hours." "Mandarin said coming to Siri by March"


http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/11/11/mandarin.said.coming.to.siri.by.march/


Apple can't keep up with demand now. Having Mandarin on Siri will only make it more attractive to the Chinese. Translation: sales out the wazoo.

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To: jeftuxedo who wrote (121894)11/11/2011 5:41:19 PM
From: give_me_a_break   of 155540
 
"Apple can't keep up with demand now" - the worry of course now will be that it is not demand, but a supply problem that will lead to disappointment in January. The supply chain is very opaque to anyone outside Apple supply chain management - and perhaps to them also. My bet is that Tim Cook is on top of any operational issues and will sort it out.

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To: give_me_a_break who wrote (121895)11/11/2011 6:01:32 PM
From: jeftuxedo   of 155540
 
IF (and I am skeptical about the "reports") there are supply chain issues, I agree that Tim Cook will be all over it. That is his forte.

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To: give_me_a_break who wrote (121870)11/11/2011 6:02:32 PM
From: Jeff Hayden   of 155540
 
<<<"Is AMD Slimming down for a date with Apple" - lets hope not. I'm not sure I see the value in Apples ARM efforts. Processor design is not a core competency for Apple. It is one of those areas that requires endless investment with little chance of gaining competitive performance or cost advantage. Maybe somebody with more direct semi-conductor/processor experience has a better insight.>>>

Strange statement. Especially since Apple made NVIDIA look silly with their Tegra 2 being considerably slower than Apple's A4 in the iPhone 4. Apple wants processors designed to run iOS very well and have the money to make it happen. The advantage, besides low power, to the ARM architecture is that Apple can concentrate on the graphics, touch, and other peripheral functions that they want and don't have to settle with generic designs - this is a an advantage they don't get with Intel. Apple doesn't have to design the CPU.


Give another couple years and ARM chips will be about as able as Intel's.

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To: jeftuxedo who wrote (121896)11/11/2011 6:29:29 PM
From: Keith Feral   of 155540
 
I don't think there is any question there are supply chain issues - Apple is not producing nearly enough iPhones to keep up with demand! Sure, it's a great problem to have, but it's also a missed opportunity to keep people waiting for 2 to 3 weeks to get an iPhone 4S. However, Sprint stores are just beginning to carry inventory for the first time this week. I checked my Sprint store yesterday and they had the 4S in inventory for the first time since the launch.

Apple is one of the few companies that can get away with keeping people waiting. I've been waiting for the iPhone for 4 years with Sprint. I can't imagine ever using another cell phone again, especially since Siri removes all the headaches of using the touchscreen to type messages, passwords, texts, emails, and whatever else you would need to type.

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To: HerbVic who wrote (121879)11/11/2011 7:13:22 PM
From: Doren2 Recommendations   of 155540
 
One thing analysts do that destroys their credibility:

Confusing a stock's raw price with its P/E. Raw price means nothing, P/E is the REAL price. If they don't get that very simple fundamental aspect of investing I know they are not very good.

As soon as they say Apple is too expensive at 395 or 400 and don't mention Apple's P/E and P/E with the cash deducted, I know I am a better analyst than they are.

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