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To: koan who wrote (62)9/20/2017 5:24:35 PM
From: The Ox
   of 107
 
While you're asking about how people will deal with AI and/or the Singularity, I have similar questions about AI and how "machines" will deal with people. Let's start with EMPATHY. There are enough people in this world that seem to have little or no empathy.... but it seems to me that it will be very important for machines to understand this concept.

Many of this issues you raise are partially explained by the fact that so many people have to struggle through their daily lives that they may not be able to spend the appropriate time "learning" or on/in education vs. having to earn a living or who need to support a family or loved one.


so the meaning of life, IMO, then, is to find our way out of Plato's illusory cave of dogma we are born into and into the bright sunlight of a well functioning humanitarian existential being which can only be achieved by learning.
How does the Singularity encompass what you wrote above and do we end up with a "well functioning humanitarian existential AI being" coming out of this process?

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To: Glenn Petersen who wrote (34)9/20/2017 5:29:42 PM
From: The Ox
   of 107
 
Message 31208383

Meanwhile, across campus, Williams, who is the design lead for Cortana, is building out an ethical design guide for AI to be used inside Microsoft. Williams is, to an absurd degree, a techno-optimist, and she believes that AI’s true magic is that it will make us more human. She talks a lot about how to design empathy into the tools Microsoft builds. “We think about making the human feel more powerful and protected, and supported, and assisted, and loved, and the center of their world,” she says. “AI's job is to amplify the best of society and the best of human behavior, not the worst.”

I ask Williams if she believes AI can really make humans feel more emotionally supported. She’s certain it can. Take a child who has had a bad day at school. She comes home and shares the whole story with a family pet, and feels better. “That gives you this cathartic sense of I've shared something, and I've had a warm, fuzzy hug back from the dog or cat,” says Williams. “But, you know, with AI you can have the same feeling of amplification back... And we see it when Cortana manages to remind you, ‘Hey, you promised you'd send something to your mother today for Mother's Day,’ and you suddenly feel human again.”

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To: The Ox who wrote (63)9/20/2017 8:36:21 PM
From: koan
   of 107
 
Good questions: below all IMO;

with regard to public pre school with hot lunch the parent can drop off the kid and go to school or work and everyone wins: the kid gets an early start to education (we may find this is crucial as it may mitigate the brains pruning of important capabilities that takes place in the young) and socialization e.g. hanging up their coat and socializing for good mental health (we are a pack animal). ; the parent wins as they can go to school or work and the society wins because I believe it is impossible for a society to lose money on education. When a society educates a citizen they get that investment back many times over in increased productivity and reduction in crime. Most crime is the result of ignorance.

With regard to AI's behavior my theory is that AI will know all the history of humankind and be able to see the bad, the good and the ugly by our history and stories, and so it will know being good is a good thing to do :)>.

How it relates to Plato (the worlds first existentialist IMO) is that AI is going to be all about knowledge and will also be existential in nature. Plato's Cave is about transforming from a reality of myth to a reality of awareness and knowledge; so it is important we know what we are talking about when we start interacting with it.

Otherwise we will not recognize what it is doing?



<<Message #63 from The Ox at 9/20/2017 5:24:35 PM

While you're asking about how people will deal with AI and/or the Singularity, I have similar questions about AI and how "machines" will deal with people. Let's start with EMPATHY. There are enough people in this world that seem to have little or no empathy.... but it seems to me that it will be very important for machines to understand this concept.

Many of this issues you raise are partially explained by the fact that so many people have to struggle through their daily lives that they may not be able to spend the appropriate time "learning" or on/in education vs. having to earn a living or who need to support a family or loved one.


so the meaning of life, IMO, then, is to find our way out of Plato's illusory cave of dogma we are born into and into the bright sunlight of a well functioning humanitarian existential being which can only be achieved by learning.
How does the Singularity encompass what you wrote above and do we end up with a "well functioning humanitarian existential AI being" coming out of this process?

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From: koan9/24/2017 12:39:37 PM
   of 107
 


Fixation on negative and positive things: Great and important concept to think about, that people very seldom do. See bottom of page.

I am reading Homo Deus and as I expected the entire book is written at a sophistication of intellectual perception a full level above what most of us live in i..e. he applies logic to mundane things that makes one realize basic concepts are much larger in scope than we seldom think about e.g. what is happiness, how should we pursue it, what does it represent in the grand scheme of things: or, lol, that we are an animal trying to negotiate a technological environment (created haphazardly) with a mind which is evolved for a nomadic life style, not evolved to survive in.

So we need to create an existential mind that can adapt to the modern world.

AI is going to be operating in the existential reality and so we need to be able to see it.

I recommend Homo Deus for one to see what reality looks like when understood at a full level above the reality people live in as seen in common conversation and perception and life style choices,


<<

An interesting consequence of human mind is our fixation on the negative. After watching this TED talk I realized how true this was for me personally. Experiments show that negativity is twice as 'sticky' as positive thought. Norman Vincent Peale talked about the power of positive thinking. The skeptics and cynics (like me) find great humor in the Life of Brian where they are all on the cross singing - "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" - a personal favorite. But in that is a powerful message - Try not to get sucked down by the surplus of negativity and remember that bad stuff impacts people twice as much as good and is twice as hard to reverse, leading to a 4x multiplier.

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To: koan who wrote (59)9/24/2017 1:08:15 PM
From: zzpat
   of 107
 
I'd be curious to see what part of the 60s historians think changed the world more, birth control (the pill) or all the other issues.

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To: zzpat who wrote (67)9/25/2017 11:22:21 PM
From: koan
   of 107
 

They both changed the world greatly. I see no reason to ask that question.

The 60's was transformational because it was a period when the kids and liberals sort of had a collective epiphany which was:" we need to throw out primitive destructive ideas, like racism and misogyny and tribal dogma which prevented so many from self actualization and manifest destiny and replace it with modern existential humanitarian thinking

Continuing to read Homo Deus. He is explaining how the rich are starting to "buy" designer babies and there will be no stopping it. Kids with three parents: Two DNA and one RNA; or fertilize several eggs and pick the one with the least defects..

This is where we are headed, and no going back, so buckle your seat belt and those who choose denial to embracing this reality will have a tough life and if they teach that to their kids they will be left behind.

And if we do not address it here other countries will, so--------?


<<

I'd be curious to see what part of the 60s historians think changed the world more, birth control (the pill) or all the other issues.

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To: koan who wrote (68)9/26/2017 10:54:16 AM
From: zzpat
   of 107
 
The era of liberalism that began with a revolt against the ruling parties is now creating enormous wealth with the Internet and AI (I'm obviously younger than you). There are very few conservative companies that are capable of doing what liberals have already done and are capable of doing. I think they're angry that their belief system can't fix any of our problems and it's the source of their inferiority complex.

They need to taste success and so far it eludes them.

They have power but they don't know what to do with it. Liberals were never that wimpy. We (two generations) changed the world and there's no looking back. From ending a war in Vietnam to creating Google, Apple, Netflix, Facebook, Twitter and so much more our influence is global. I think they kinda know they hitched themselves to a dead horse but they can't unhitch themselves.

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To: zzpat who wrote (69)9/26/2017 12:10:40 PM
From: koan
   of 107
 
The singularity is an organic manifestation and was always, and is always, going to evolve until it overrides human thought and there is nothing anyone can do about it except adapt. And that will mean merging with it.

The 60's cultural revolution was also organic in the sense its time had come, just like when we ended slavery, segregation and misogyny.

That same cultural revolution we underwent in the 60's is now taking place all over the world and can be seen in recent cinema from around the world. The young writers and directors are taking the "elders" in second and third world countries to task for their inherent caste systems, misogyny and general denial of basic civil rights.

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To: koan who wrote (70)9/26/2017 1:21:13 PM
From: zzpat
   of 107
 
The fall of the USSR was a perfect example of how fast technology can change the world. Once Russians were able to see our TV shows (and commercials) the communist grip couldn't possibly last. The music from the 60s and 70s is very popular in Russia. Perhaps they want revolution again. I'm betting on it.

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To: zzpat who wrote (71)9/26/2017 4:09:16 PM
From: koan
   of 107
 
edit wrong thread.

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