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To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (46851)10/23/2011 3:48:20 PM
From: stockman_scott1 Recommendation   of 91255
 
Groupon's fall to earth swifter than its fast rise

finance.yahoo.com 

Friday October 21, 2011

NEW YORK (AP) -- Only a few months ago, Groupon was the Internet's next great thing. Business media christened it the fastest growing company ever. Copycats proliferated. And investors salivated over the prospect of Groupon going public.

Today, the startup that pioneered online daily deals for coupons is an example of how fast an Internet darling can fall.

Groupon is discounting its expectations for the IPO that in June was valued as high as $25 billion. In a regulatory filing Friday, the company said that it expects a valuation that is less than half that at between $10.1 billion and $11.4 billion.

It's the latest twist for Groupon's IPO, which was one of the most anticipated offerings this year. In June, after Groupon filed for the offering, the SEC raised concerns about the way it counts revenue. Then the stock market plunged.

Now Groupon faces concerns about the viability of its daily deals business model. The novelty of online coupons is wearing off. Some merchants are complaining that they are losing money -- and customers-- on the deals. And competitors are swarming the marketplace.

"Groupon is a disaster," says Sucharita Mulpuru, a Forrester Research analyst. "It's a shill that's going to be exposed pretty soon."

Groupon shows what can happen when a startup experiences steroidal growth in an unproven industry. To its defenders, the Chicago company is a victim of its success, its stumbles emblematic of a business in infancy. After all, Groupon has hordes of fans who rave about the company's deals and its liberal refund policy. And some merchants see the company has a way to get much-need exposure.

"It's free marketing and it brings in a lot of people," says Cono Moreno, owner of Brooklyn's Verde restaurant.

But critics say the issues Groupon is facing are symptomatic of something more troubling: questionable accounting, an overvalued business model and an industry that is turning into the digital equivalent of junk mail.

Groupon is expected to go public Nov. 4. The company could not comment for this story due to the quiet period for its IPO, during which time company officials are barred by regulators from discussing anything about the firm. But interviews with analysts, investment managers and merchants tell the story of a company that grew too fast as it raced to go public.

Groupon's beginning

Groupon began in 2008 when computer programmer Andrew Mason, a Northwestern University grad and former punk band keyboardist, figured out how to get people excited about the low-margin business of coupons.

Mason's brainchild: sign up merchants to offer coupons online through a website and Groupon's email subscriber list. Shoppers who see these ads on their computers, tablets or mobile phones can then buy the coupons, getting bargains on everything from knee socks to Botox. The deals are targeted toward customers' cities and preferences. Groups bidding on coupons equals -- voila -- Groupon.

By 2010, Groupon was in nearly 100 cities and 25 countries. Groupon's staff ballooned to nearly 10,000. Mason, now 30, was on his way to becoming the next tech billionaire.

The scene was set for an IPO. In June, Groupon filed documents with the SEC reporting $713.4 million in revenue in 2010, making it the first company to surpass the $500-million revenue mark in its third year, according to Forbes magazine. But Groupon began facing a growing perception that its business was unstable.

The online deal space was getting jammed with competitors, like Living Social, Amazon.com and Google. They are among the many copycats who are attempting to do what Groupon does. Big merchants are also running their own daily deals online.

At the same time that competition is building, consumers are questioning the quality of Groupon's offerings. Those who are disgruntled with Groupon often broadcast it on Yelp, the user review website that rates merchants. There's even something called the "Yelp Effect," named for the way angry customers drive down the merchants' Yelp ratings.

"Most of the deals are for female-centric services like spas and nails or for high-ticket non-necessities like skydiving and travel," says Richard Breen, a Greenville, S.C., marketing executive who used to use Groupon. "I typically delete it each day now without opening the email."

When she first started using Groupon in 2008, Sabrina Kidwai, of Alexandria Va., was happy with the deals site. But then she used a Groupon for a picture canvas for a family photo. She placed the order three days before the Groupon's expiration, but the merchant was so overwhelmed with the response to the deal that it couldn't fulfill her order. What ensued was a customer service nightmare that ended with Kidwai getting her picture canvas two months later.

"I definitely think there are some wonderful deals, but users really need to pay attention and speak up when the company provides you with a bad experience," she said.

Adding to growing customer discontent, Groupon, which was initially seen by small mom-and-pop shops as a way to drum up new business, was losing favor with some of them. Merchants began to do the cruel math on the daily deals.

Restaurants offering $50 of food for just $25 only collect $12.50 -- not even enough to cover the cost of the food. Some businesses also complain that the deals for new customers anger long-time patrons. Others say that the bargains attract high-maintenance types who don't turn into loyal customers.

"Your restaurants are full packed with people who aren't making you any money," says Paul Evans, a Kansas City marketing executive who advises clients against using Groupon.

Take Jessie Burke, for instance. Last year, the owner of Portland's Posies Cafe offered a $13 coupon for $6. The cafe was deluged with customers and Burke ended up having to take $8,000 out of personal savings to cover payroll.

"It is the single worst decision I have ever made as a business owner," Burke said in a blog post that quickly went viral.

Andres Arango, founder of natural jewelry company muichic.com, had a similar experience. He sold 80 coupons -- $35 of jewelry for $15 -- in two days. But of that $15, he only got $7.50. And he still had to dole out $35 worth of jewelry.

As far as customers? "They never came back," Arango said

John Byers, a Boston University computer science professor who conducted a study on thousands of Groupon deals, wrote that he found that "Offering a Groupon puts a merchant's reputation at risk. The audience being reached may be more critical than their typical audience or have a more tenuous fit with the merchant."

Groupon also has faced trouble behind its own doors.

After only two months, its public relations chief quit in August. The next day, CEO Mason wrote a 2,500-word email to the staff defending Groupon against critics. That email was leaked to the press and then lambasted by some analysts and members of the investment community for violating terms of the quiet period.

Two seasoned executives hired as COOs also left. The latest, former Google sales vice president Margo Georgiadis, resigned after five months to return to Google. Her departure coincided with Groupon's announcement that it was restating its revenue by around half.

"It's like watching a Ben Stiller movie and waiting for the next painful moment," says Mulpuru, the Forrester analyst.

The next chapter

After Groupon filed documents for its IPO in June, the SEC -- and the investment community -- began asking serious questions about the company.

The first concern stemmed from how Groupon accounted for its revenue.

Groupon roughly splits the money it collects from customers with merchants. But in the filing, Groupon reported all of its gross billings as revenue. Standard accounting principles dictate that Groupon should have used net revenue -- the amount it keeps after paying the merchant.

For example, Groupon reported $1.52 billion in revenue for the first half of 2011. But after the SEC questioned it, Groupon in late September submitted new documents that showed that net revenue in the first half of this year was actually $688 million. Groupon was overstating its revenue by roughly half.

Groupon's growth has no doubt been quantum. Since November, 2008, it has signed up 142.9 million email subscribers and has had more than 30 million customers. But only 20 percent of subscribers have purchased a Groupon. And only 10 percent have purchased more than one.

Groupon also faces concerns about how it has used its money.

On Oct. 7, in its fourth amendment, Groupon disclosed that it had spent half its net revenue -- $345.1 million -- on marketing costs alone during the first half of this year. Analysts think of those costs as how much Groupon is paying to acquire subscribers.

Additionally, there are questions about how the company has used investor money. Traditionally, investor money is used to grow a business before it goes public. But according to Groupon's SEC filings, $810 million of the $946 million it raised went to early investors and insiders. That includes $398 million to Groupon's largest investor, shareholder and executive chairman, Eric Lefkofsky.

"Taking this money raises questions about the integrity of the company and enormous questions about the quality of the management team," says Mulpuru. "Groupon's primary problem first and foremost is greed."

Meanwhile, the company's debt has skyrocketed. Groupon's ratio of debt to capital is 102 percent. By comparison, the ratio for social-networking site LinkedIn is about 30 percent and gaming site Zynga's is about 49 percent. "Those companies are all in normal territory," says Ed Ketz, a Penn State accounting professor. "But Groupon's is excessively high."

In Friday's filing, the company laid out third-quarter financial figures that showed it is getting closer to profitability. For the three months ended Sept. 30, Groupon narrowed its net loss of $10.6 million on revenue of $430.2 million in part by lowering marketing spending. That compares with a loss of $49 million on revenue of $81.8 million in the same period last year.

Groupon, which rejected a $6 billion takeover offer from Google Inc. last year, disclosed in the Friday filing that its revenue has grown from $1.2 million in 2009's second quarter to $430.2 million in the third quarter of this year.

The company has its supporters. Groupon has been funded by such venture capital heavyweights as Andreessen Horowitz, firm of Netscape founder Marc Andreessen. Andreessen declined to comment, but in an August essay in the Wall Street Journal, he wrote that companies like Groupon would "eat the retail marketing industry."

"We are in the middle of a dramatic and broad technological and economic shift in which software companies are poised to take over large swaths of the economy," he wrote.

-Michelle Chapman in New York contributed to this report.

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To: stockman_scott who wrote (46853)10/23/2011 4:36:09 PM
From: Pogeu Mahone   of 91255
 
Not worth one dollar


pets.com

if they can get this out the door...

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To: orkrious who wrote (46849)10/23/2011 4:38:19 PM
From: TH   of 91255
 
Ork,

Agree.

I think we look back in a year and ask how we missed the miner rally and the top in bonds. Both are flashing to me now. Buy one and sell the other.

GT
TH

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To: BWAC who wrote (46852)10/23/2011 4:51:46 PM
From: ggersh1 Recommendation   of 91255
 
Yet it's going to raise between $10-12bil.....ufb



Now Groupon faces concerns about the viability of its daily deals business model. The novelty of online coupons is wearing off. Some merchants are complaining that they are losing money -- and customers-- on the deals. And competitors are swarming the marketplace.

"Groupon is a disaster," says Sucharita Mulpuru, a Forrester Research analyst. "It's a shill that's going to be exposed pretty soon."

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To: Smiling Bob who wrote (46811)10/23/2011 4:56:41 PM
From: Smiling Bob   of 91255
 
What is incredible is that the ONLY one who believes there is a solution are the machines
Considering the ONLY reason they are crafting a bigger foot for a bigger can is to sabe the mkts and having nothing to do with fixing the real economy, that may be all the counts
Did a post recently call this "capitalism?

-----



No deal yet on euro crisis as the danger growsDelayed crisis plan raises stakes in euro crisis; Italy under pressure to get economy in shape








French President Nicolas Sarkozy, right, gestures while speaking with European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso during a round table meeting at an EU summit in Brussels on Sunday, Oct. 23, 2011. Greece's prime minister is pleading with European leaders in Brussels to act decisively to solve the continent's debt crisis. At a summit Sunday, the leaders are expected to ask banks to accept huge losses on Greek bonds to ease the pressure on the country, and to raise billions more in capital to weather those losses. (AP Photo/Yves Logghe)





Sarah Dilorenzo, AP Business Writer, On Sunday October 23, 2011, 4:34 pm
BRUSSELS (AP) -- European leaders yet again put off the tough decisions needed to save the continent from its debt crisis but promised Sunday that a comprehensive plan is still coming.

As they dawdled, the danger was rising in an already high-stakes game.

Leaders of the continent's richest countries had unusually stern words Sunday for Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, because many fear his nation could be the next dragged into the debt crisis if it does not make major budget cuts quickly.

That would spell disaster: Europe has rescued three small nations -- Greece, Ireland and Portugal -- but cannot afford to rescue Italy, the eurozone's third largest economy. Analysts say EU leaders, known as the European Council when they meet in Brussels, have to act now to eliminate the possibility of Italy's financial collapse.

"Between now and Wednesday, some members of the European Council have to convince colleagues that their country implements commitments fully," EU President Herman Van Rompuy said after the day's meetings, clearly referring to Italy. On Wednesday, leaders will gather again -- to unveil their solution, they promise.

When asked later what would happen if countries failed to fall in line, he responded: "They will make commitments."

For weeks it's been clear what the 17 countries that use the euro must do: reduce Greece's debt burden so the country eventually can stand on its own, force banks to raise more money so they can ride out the financial storm that will entail, and show that their European bailout fund is big and nimble enough to prevent larger economies from getting dragged into the crisis.

On Saturday, officials said the leaders were nearing agreement on slashing Greece's debts and strengthening the continent's banks, many of which are awash in Greek bonds.

But Sunday, the only solid detail to emerge from three days of intense talks was that banks will have to raise their capital buffers much faster than they had planned -- by the end of 2012, instead of 2019.

A European official said Saturday the banks would be forced to raise just over euro100 billion ($140 billion) more for their rainy-day funds, but leaders have not given an official figure.

Instead, at a series of news conferences Sunday, all they could do was promise to deliver big at their next summit.

"There are still problems to solve, but we are moving forward on all subjects," French President Nicolas Sarkozy said as he left Sunday's meetings. "There is a still a lot of work to do ... but there are no more blockages."

Analysts who have seen this pattern for months couldn't help but be skeptical.

"By failing to agree on anything substantial today, EU leaders may have set themselves up for an even bigger fall," said Sony Kapoor, managing director of the Re-Define think tank. "They owe it to Europe to pull a rabbit out of the hat now, but this seems to be beyond them."

Part of the challenge is that European leaders are unable to decide on anything until everything is in place, since each piece of the puzzle affects the others. The value of Greece's bonds can't be slashed until banks are strengthened -- or at least have confidence they can get help from the rescue fund. But some countries are reluctant to strengthen the fund until they know there's a plan to bring Greek debt under control.

Banks -- which have already agreed to take losses on their Greek bonds of some 21 percent -- are already rumbling at suggestions that they might need to double or nearly triple that figure. But without reducing Greece's debt load, the whole plan does not work.

The eurozone also still needs to work out how to most effectively use Europe's bailout fund to make sure Italy and Spain don't see their borrowing costs spiral out of control, as happened with Greece, Portugal and Ireland.

Officials said leaders had reduced seven different proposals down to two options, which are not mutually exclusive. Both options would essentially use the European Financial Stability Facility to insure investors against a first round of losses on bonds from wobbly countries.

But before that can be done, those countries have to convince their partners in the eurozone that their weakness is only temporary and they can get back into shape soon.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and France's Sarkozy came out with particularly strong words for Italy.

"We made it very clear that Italy is a big and important partner for the euro area and that everything needs to be done to live up to this responsibility," Merkel told reporters after the two met with Berlusconi.

"Trust does not just come from a firewall," she added. "Italy has great economic power but Italy also has a very high overall debt level. And that was to be taken down in the coming years in a credible way."

The stern tone reflected the seriousness of Europe's problems, which have roiled financial markets in recent months and been blamed for slowing economic growth across the globe.

Worst off, of course, is Greece, which is reeling from repeated rounds of budget cuts, job cuts and new taxes that have sparked near-daily strikes and even riots. The country is looking at a fourth year of recession and unemployment has hit a record of 16.5 percent.

"Greece has proven again and again that we are making the necessary decisions to make our economy sustainable," Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou told reporters Sunday. "But it's been proven now that the crisis is not a Greek crisis. The crisis is a European crisis, so now is the time that we as Europeans need to act."

To ease the pressure, banks will be asked to accept much bigger losses on Greek bonds.

Austria's chancellor said the cut in the value of Greek government bonds will likely be raised "in the direction of 40 to 50 percent."

"A cut in the debt is the right step," Werner Faymann told the Austrian newspaper Wiener Kurier.

Despite massive budget cuts and reforms, a new report says Greece's economic situation is still dire and it could take the country decades to emerge from the crisis.

The eurozone has accepted that it will have to provide Greece with tens of billions of euros in extra aid -- on top of euro110 billion ($152 billion) granted in May 2010. But to keep a lid on that amount, banks must go far beyond a preliminary deal reached in July, in which they promised take a cut of 21 percent of their Greek bondholdings.

The near-consensus among eurozone countries that Greece's debt will have to be slashed is one of the reasons banks across Europe -- not only in the 17-country eurozone -- will be forced to shore up their capital buffers in the coming months.

To that end, Sarkozy said the EU will require banks to raise their capital buffers to higher levels by 2012 rather than the 2019 laid out under the Basel III banking rules.

Gabriele Steinhauser, Raf Casert, Slobodan Lekic, Don Melvin and Elena Becatoros contributed to this report.


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    Sokfashion.net 1 minute ago Report Abuse hello :
    gucci prada lv chanel handbag and shoes only 3o usd
    More tshirt jeans and hoodie fashion online
    look at my name<-- <--


    s for a year. And students who have difficulty repaying federal loans may be able to sign up to dela146 Reply





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    A Yahoo! User 3 minutes ago Report Abuse Oh but they will drive the price up up up using the hopes and dreams of a resolution. When it does come Wall Street will use it as a spring board to push the price of oil over $100. Thanks Goldman Sachs and all you oil Speculators!! I am buying a Nissan Leaf and you can keep your OIL!!! Reply





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    Keep The Faith 3 minutes ago Report Abuse European leaders again put off the tough decisions needed to save the continent from its debt crisis but promised Sunday that a comprehensive plan is still coming.

    -The leaders are flat out lying, and real money will be lost as a result of that. If there were a plan, that would be known by now. All I can say is that stating that there is a plan, when there isn't is fraud because the purpose is to prop up the markets and nothing else. One has to ask whether the leaders of these contries should admit defeat and step down, because Europe is far too complex to solve. These people have said for weeks that there is a solution, and there hasn't been one. These people need to resign and then be charged with fraud. That's all the meetings reflect--pretend to create a solution, but not really, and then creat market rallies on hope. That's criminal, and it needs to stop. Just tell the truth. Reply





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    TawnyAngel88 5 minutes ago Report Abuse Debt is real. How could a bunch of these Bureaucrats just get together and be able to magically 'solve' the issues? Markets are now worse than casinos.

    Major Collapse is now imminent. Dow to 1000. Reply





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    A Yahoo! User 6 minutes ago Report Abuse reinstate glass steagall. Reply





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    A 6 minutes ago Report Abuse I don't believe a word that comes out of Angela Markel (any politicians). everytime she says everything is okay. that means sky is about to fall. I am new in the market but have enough sense not to believe politicians and their fake rallies. What I don't understand is why do people let the market rally when there is no concrete results in past two years? I think everytime there is a positive news from EU (especially from Merkel) market should go down until concrete results are set in place. maybe that will help teach blood sucking big banks, investors and politicians a lesson.

    Just like when those big banks and investors suggests some stocks and then few days later its down. Its because they need somebody to buy it from them. if we start doing opposite to what they want us to do then they will be in our shoes. then we will see who gets the last laugh.

    Same thing with politician promise are made to be broken once hired. do the same to them.

    "TIT for TAT" who ever created that was very much aware how to handle evil people. (must have been burnt by them to be angry enough to say that). Reply





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    Patrick 12 minutes ago Report Abuse THE REASON that there is no deal is that the derivatives have BLOWN UP. This time on a bigger scale than Lehman. If you journalist would do some investigation instead of just piecing together what Lying politicians tell then you might have a clue! Billions do not solve this problem as it is more like 8 trillion dollars! Yes, EIGHT TRILLION. Now, you must understand cdo's and counter party risk. A few non-mainstream reporters are pointing to this this morning. Buckle up because when the American sheeple figure out the collapse of the whole trans-Atlantic financial system is underway the markets will panic. What I say is truth, I doubt most will understand. Replies (3)





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    Sokfashion.net 13 minutes ago Report Abuse hello :
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    allow them to pay back the loans, instead of a job they want.
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    SSPONZI 15 minutes ago Report Abuse no way will germany allow leveraged borrowing to fund the lazy overspending rude boys Reply





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    Victor 16 minutes ago Report Abuse European debt deal will not work, period. No one will stupid to rescue debt at time of mordern online communication technology is destroying human job and stock market has no individual investor donate money in. Reply

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    To: Kayaker who wrote (46824)10/23/2011 5:03:01 PM
    From: marcher1 Recommendation   of 91255
     
    --transfer of billions of dollars from taxpayers around the world to European banks--

    trickle up...as in vomit.
    -ng-

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    From: Secret_Agent_Man10/23/2011 5:11:34 PM
       of 91255
     
    No deal yet on euro crisis as the danger grows9 minutes ago

    European leaders yet again put off the tough decisions needed to save the continent from its debt crisis but promised Sunday that a comprehensive plan is still coming-


    YEAH RIIGHT!

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    From: Smiling Bob10/23/2011 5:13:07 PM
    1 Recommendation   of 91255
     
    OWS having some effect?
    Or O's polls?
    Hoenig says this mortgage mess wasn't consistent with capitalism.
    ------
    To big to fail' foe picked for top FDIC post








    Chris Isidore, On Friday October 21, 2011, 12:53 pm EDT
    A conservative critic of "too big to fail" banks has been tapped for a key position to do something about them.

    Thomas Hoenig, a former Federal Reserve bank president, will be nominated by President Obama to become vice chairman at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., the federal agency that insures banks and closes them when they fail.

    Hoenig is a vocal critic of large banks, technically known as "systemically important financial institutions," or SIFI, under the recent Dodd-Frank regulatory reform of the financial system. Of course, they're more popularly known as the "too big to fail" banks that are a focus of the Occupy Wall Street protests.

    Under Dodd-Frank, the FDIC will be responsible for unwinding failing big banks.

    In a June speech, Hoenig -- who headed the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City -- called those institutions "fundamentally inconsistent with capitalism."

    "They are inherently destabilizing to global markets and detrimental to world growth," he said. "So long as the concept of a SIFI exists, and there are institutions so powerful and considered so important that they require special support and different rules, the future of capitalism is at risk and our market economy is in peril."

    There is a debate going on right now as to what trading of financial assets banks will be allowed to do under Dodd-Frank. Advocates of the so-called Volcker rule, named after former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker, want to allow banks to conduct trading for customers but prohibit them from trading on their own behalf, a practice known as proprietary trading.

    The FDIC board voted for a draft of the Volcker rule earlier this month, starting a process of public comment on the regulation.

    In his June speech, Hoenig advocated even tighter prohibitions on bank trading. In fact, he thinks they should not be allowed to conduct any trades at all.

    "Allowing customer but not proprietary trading would make it easy to game the system by 'concealing' proprietary trading as part of the inventory necessary to conduct customer trading," he argued.

    If Hoenig is confirmed by the Senate to the new post, it could be bad news for big banks, but good news for smaller banks, said Jaret Seiberg, research analyst with MF Global's Washington Research Group.

    "It is hard to find a government official who spoke out more forcefully for breaking up the biggest banks than Hoenig during his tenure as Kansas City Federal Reserve president," said Seiberg. "As FDIC vice chairman, he will have an even bigger platform for this message."

    Besides his views on banks, Hoenig was probably best known as the sole dissenting vote against the Fed decision last November to buy an additional $600 billion in Treasuries in an effort to boost the sluggish U.S. economy, a policy known as quantitative easing, or QE2 for short.

    He also opposed language in which the Fed promised to keep its key interest rate exceptionally low for an extended period.

    He said in a speech a year ago that QE2 would be a "bargain with the devil," fearing new asset bubbles that could distort markets, and arguing that it could feed inflation down the road.

    Hoenig's criticism of Fed policy made him a favorite among Congressional Republicans. Last fall, as Republicans prepared to assume control of the House after their midterm win, Hoenig was invited to speak to Republican members of Congress behind closed doors.

    He also testified earlier this year before the House subcommittee on monetary policy chaired by Ron Paul, a noted Fed critic and presidential candidate, who would like to abolish the central bank altogether.

    Republicans' previous praise for Hoenig may make it difficult for them to block his confirmation, even if they oppose his views on the Volcker rule and bank regulation, said Boston University law professor Cornelius Hurley, a former counsel to the Fed Board of Governors.

    "A brilliant political step, Hoenig's nomination puts Senate Republicans in a very difficult spot in voting on his vice-chairmanship," said Hurley. "His experience and point of view on systemic risk may foretell a pivot away from the failing policies of (Treasury Secretary)Timothy Geithner and (and former Obama adviser) Larry Summers toward more meaningful structural reform of our financial system."

    The FDIC is the government agency that insures bank deposits for customers, and oversees the takeover of banks deemed to be insolvent. After taking over relatively few banks in the years leading up to the 2008 financial crisis, it has become very active since the financial meltdown, taking over 402 banks since 2008.

    Martin Gruenberg is technically still the vice chairman of the agency but he has been acting chairman since the resignation of the previous chairman, Sheila Bair, in July. President Obama nominated Gruenberg in June to become the new chairman.

    View this article on CNNMoney

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    To: roguedolphin who wrote (46742)10/23/2011 5:34:02 PM
    From: Amelia Carhartt4 Recommendations   of 91255
     
    All this talk about Jobs cancer motivated me to write a blog post about cancer.

    kotybear.blogspot.com 

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    To: Mike Johnston who wrote (46809)10/23/2011 6:07:11 PM
    From: Jim McMannis1 Recommendation   of 91255
     
    RE:"Wall Street is ripping off the society, but it is the Fed that provides them with the means to do so. Without the Fed many giants of WS would never grow to be that big. "

    Wall Street IS the FED and the FEd IS Wall Street.

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