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To: rubbersoul who wrote (387)9/11/2008 9:17:21 PM
From: SwampDogg1 Recommendation   of 491
 
If the U.S. goes into a depression the natural direction of the stock market would be down but if money is worth less and less than the stock market could rise in nominal terms (ie shorts should be careful).
Gold will skyrocket and gold mining will be a very good business. If people do not buy the stocks and I think that they will) then gold companies will pay out huge dividends in gold or cash or buy back stock.
Base metals I am neutral on. Oil is a good business
Also do not forget that just because the West is broke does not mean that their are not rich people in the world. Apparently there are massive orders for gold outstanding from the ultra rich and there is not enough gold. Silver dealers are selling coins for $20/oz this week. This is the real market. The paper market is a bogus Fed job so they can cut rates. Watch them do it in the next week. My guess is that some of the miners will be holding back delivery thus putting more supply pressures on the market. Why would a silver company deliver at this price when the price will be 40% higher in a couple of weeks?
They sure have shaken you guys up.

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To: SwampDogg who wrote (388)9/11/2008 9:49:09 PM
From: riversides   of 491
 
when the price will be 40% higher in a couple of weeks?...
that is hope,and it's only a four letter word..<g>..i'm with ya, hoping...!

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To: SwampDogg who wrote (388)9/11/2008 9:49:50 PM
From: riversides   of 491
 
when the price will be 40% higher in a couple of weeks?

that is hope,and it's only a four letter word..<g>..i'm with ya, hoping...!

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To: SwampDogg who wrote (388)9/11/2008 9:59:19 PM
From: riversides   of 491
 
what's a gold bug...?

MARK HULBERT
Heads I win, tails you lose
Commentary: Gold bugs' arguments sometimes involve disingenuous logic
By Mark Hulbert, MarketWatch
Last update: 11:24 p.m. EDT Sept. 9, 2008
Comments: 253
ANNANDALE, Va. (MarketWatch) -- I received a phone call Tuesday, in the wake of yet another session in which gold bullion was falling, this time to its lowest level this year.
Chart of 38099902
Who, the caller wanted to know, were some of the gold bugs who were persisting in recommending gold bullion
38099902 775.75, +775.75, 0.0%) , despite a two-month decline that so far has taken more than $200 off the price of an ounce of the yellow metal? See story
This question got me thinking about what makes a gold-oriented adviser a genuine "gold bug"?
It can't be because he has continued to be bullish on gold in the face of the decline, I realized. After all, there are plenty of stock-market timers who have remained bullish in the face of the market's recent decline, and yet I've never heard them referred to as "stock bugs."
The best answer I could come up with is that a gold bug is someone who will remain bullish on gold, come what may. Perhaps the paradigmatic illustration of this attitude came from a newsletter editor I tracked in the early 1980s, who no longer publishes a newsletter and who I therefore will not mention to spare him any additional ignominy. When asked why gold had continued to fall, despite persistent predictions that it would rise, this editor said that it was the market, not he, that had been wrong.
By this logic, of course, an adviser can avoid ever admitting he made a mistake, no matter how much money he has lost for his clients. He definitely qualified as a "gold bug."
With this in mind, I reviewed which of today's gold-oriented newsletters are edited by advisers who come closest to my definition of a "gold bug."
Several themes emerged that became telltale signs of at least gold-bug-like tendencies. One is the notion that gold's fluctuations don't really matter, since we ought to be investing in it as a long-term hedge against currency devaluation. A prominent exponent of this point of view is Richard Russell, editor of Dow Theory Letters, though he is by no means the only adviser to put forth the argument. Another is Jim Dines, editor of The Dines Letter, who calls himself the "original gold bug."
The reason this argument strikes me as evidence of gold-bug tendencies is not that I think it is wrong, but in the way that many advisers use it: The argument is far more often trotted out after gold has declined than after it has risen. When gold is shooting up in price, in contrast, we are more likely to read boasts about how much money is being made by clients who paid attention to the letters' advice and bought gold.
This argument about gold therefore takes on a "Heads I win, tails you lose" quality. In my opinion, if you're looking for an adviser who will tell you when to get in and out of gold, then that adviser should be judged according to whether he was correctly anticipated the rallies and declines. It's unfair of him to try to wriggle out from underneath an incorrectly bullish forecast by saying that fluctuations don't really matter.
Another theme that also betrays gold-bug like tendencies is the notion that a conspiracy is keeping gold's price artificially low. Once again, I don't necessarily disagree with that. But, in my opinion, it should not be used as an excuse for an incorrect forecast.
What I am looking for in an adviser, and what I presume most investors are too, is someone who can accurately and objectively assess the world as it is and, after taking all relevant factors into account, make a profitable forecast about what is going to happen. Part of that world is the possible existence of conspiracies, including governments and central banks that might want gold to decline.
Consider, for illustration, an adviser who focuses on the Chinese stock market. We all know that the market there is not entirely free, diverging in several significant respects from the pure free-enterprise model we learned in Economics 101. Any adviser worth his salt better take this into account; it would be disingenuous in the extreme for him to excuse a losing recommendation by explaining that the Chinese economy is not entirely free.
One editor who frequently argues that the government is keeping gold's price down is Howard Ruff, editor of the Ruff Times. Ruff became famous in the 1970s for recommending gold at a time when the financial establishment pooh-poohed it, and he wrote several best-selling books on the subject.
In his latest issue, dated Aug. 22, on which day the spot gold futures contract closed at $828 an ounce, Ruff wrote that he saw "no need to change" his strong recommendation to buy gold. Downturns like the one that was already well underway when he wrote that issue "are the result of government manipulation," he wrote, "and will be short-lived at best."
Ruff acknowledged that some will find his advice "hard to take." But, he said, his bullishness on gold "is my view; right or wrong I'm stuck with it."
I suspect that it's because of strongly-held beliefs such as these that are in part keeping the Hulbert Gold Newsletter Sentiment Index (HGNSI) at abnormally high levels. That index reflects the average recommended gold-market exposure among a subset of gold-timing newsletters tracked by the Hulbert Financial Digest.
In recent weeks I have written several columns wondering what it would take for the editor of the average gold-timing newsletter to give up believing that gold was in a bull market. And it would appear that we still don't know.
That's because the HGNSI didn't budge at all on Tuesday, despite bullion's fall, remaining at 27.9%. To put that level in perspective, it is higher than where it stood in early August, when bullion was trading above $900 per ounce.
From a contrarian perspective, the bottom of gold's decline will come when enough of the gold timers throw in the towel. Ironically, from that perspective, the gold bugs' bullish persistence is extending the agony and postponing that eventual bottom. End of Story
Mark Hulbert is the founder of Hulbert Financial Digest in Annandale, Va. He has been tracking the advice of more than 160 financial newsletters since 1980.

marketwatch.com 

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To: riversides who wrote (389)9/11/2008 10:17:27 PM
From: SwampDogg   of 491
 
<<In order to reflect the current strong demand for Silver Maples and Silver Eagles, Kitco is temporarily increasing its current bid (buyback) price for these particular products. Please visit our Selling to Kitco page for more details.>>


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To: riversides who wrote (391)9/11/2008 10:19:23 PM
From: SwampDogg2 Recommendations   of 491
 
Well I guess that gold is going below zero because they will not budge this time:)
It is primetime straight ahead for gold...never seen before
Hope is not needed unless you own a POS junior with no cash and no gold

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To: SwampDogg who wrote (386)9/11/2008 11:15:20 PM
From: gold$10k   of 491
 
Message 24787153

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To: SwampDogg who wrote (388)9/11/2008 11:18:46 PM
From: gold$10k   of 491
 
Oops... EDIT, duplicated your thought on post 392... hadn't read that one yet when I wrote this. <g>

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To: rubbersoul who wrote (387)9/11/2008 11:27:32 PM
From: Threshold1 Recommendation   of 491
 
Excellent questions given the western media onslaught of the message that the world goes into a tailspin if the US slows consumption.

When the western world industrialized they didn't really have a massive 3rd world consumption engine to fuel their economies. They thrived on internal consumption and inter trade between rich nations.

Who's to say the developing world, which has many multiples of that population base to draw from, can't do the same thing.

They are flush with cash reserves, and have seen how western nations just print money to keep expanding when necessary. In fact many of their leaders, in every area, have been educated in the west and are more than familiar with these strategies.

I'm not saying there can't be a prolonged correction in the commodity sector, but I often wonder about the accuracy of the western media's preoccupation with the message that the US is the only global financial growth engine.

The industrialization, modernization, technology usage, massive cash hoards and western financial tools available to the "3rd world" may surprise those of us who simply eat up the poorly thought out financial theories of the western financial propagandists.

The third world now has the leverage of cheap information technology. They aren't starting where we were 20+ years ago paying $15,000 for an 8088 processor pc with a 10Mb hard drive and 640K of RAM. Not only that they are the ones producing it.

At some point the US is going to have to stop spending hundreds of billions of dollars tearing down other nations, and get focused on bringing their near 3rd world highways, electrical grid, sewer systems, bridges, airports, railways, public transportation, schools and other infrastructure up to modern day standards.

Look around the world from outside the goldfish bowl that western media has built for us. We, the average western citizen that is, know far less about the rest of the world than they know about us.

Why would China, India, Brazil, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, the Middle East, Eastern Europe(with their new influx of Euros from their membership acceptance) etc just roll over and die if the US fails?

Would they not increase trade between themselves using their own currencies instead of the $US? Would they not use their cash surpluses, populations, technology and western financial strategies to keep growing, develop their infrastructures and try to surpass the western nations who have in past centuries been less than kind to them?

I don't know the answers, but I see almost no discussion of these issues in our media. We are still focused inwardly in our media coverage, while the rest of the world is peering into our goldfish bowl. They speak our language and we don't speak theirs. Isn't that a huge advantage to them in itself?

The inward American media coverage is focused on warning us of external threats and the need to militarize even more. Most of their on air hours are spent trying to divide the population into republicans and democrats apparently impervious to the failings of both groups. How is this good for America?

The media is pretty much another arm of government these days, and that government (pick a party over the last 15 or so years) has teamed up with large corporations to focus the wealth into the hands of a very small group, ship jobs and manufacturing capacity overseas. That government has failed to regulate business at the behest of the corporate lobby. It's allowed rampant mortgage, real estate assement and mortgage application fraud, failed to regulate the derivatives market which has put the banks in the hole they now face. In short, it seems that the government failed to govern, but instead enabled the looting of the American dream.

Sure both parties are selling "change" in this election cycle, but you have to be a Kool Aid drinker to fall for that.

The media has America rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan while infrastructure at home is crumbling. So should we really believe them when they say that a slowdown in America is going to destroy the global economy?

On this anniversary of the tradegy in New York, I am reminded of the President's forthcoming message "Go out and shop".

I believe that it is time to search the world for international views, views from the "3rd world". I'm done with listening to the talking media/corporate/government heads from the US and the UK. Well not fully, a smattering of them is pretty good contrary info imo.

Especially formerly economic numbers that have since become politial numbers... CPI, GDP, employment numbers, energy inventories etc. Ever wonder why dems never question these numbers when the repubs are in power and vice versa? Think about that one.

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To: SwampDogg who wrote (392)9/12/2008 6:48:22 AM
From: TheSlowLane   of 491
 
They should also post the following:

<<In order to satisfy the current strong demand for Silver Maples and Silver Eagles, Kitco's Jon Nadler is temporarily increasing his bearish forecasts for the prices for these particular products. Please visit our Editorial page for more details.>>

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