Strategies & Market Trends | Calls and Puts for Income


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To: Jeffry K. Smith who wrote (3927)9/27/2009 9:19:04 PM
From: Bridge Player   of 5710
 
To explain I'll use an example of a diagonal put spread that could result in achieving a position of holding a long put at no net cost. Similar examples occur fairly often with calls.

On Friday, when RIMM was tanking after a disappointing report on Thursday after the close and with RIMM trading around 68-69, there was a period of an hour or two when placing the following spread was possible for no out-of-pocket cost: long the November 2009 60 put, short the October 65 put, for a net credit of a few cents per spread. Best I can recall, you could have bought the Nov 60 for something like 1.45 and sold the Oct 65 for maybe 1.50 or thereabouts (times 100 of course).

Such a position has two negatives associated with it:

1. Should the stock continue to go down in the 3 weeks remaining until expiration of the October contracts, you would be exposed to possible loss of up to $500 worst case. In practice the continued existence of time premium in the long November 60 will usually offset some of that loss, and of course the entire position can be closed at any time with 2 closing transactions.

2. Full margin of $500 will be required to be maintained in the account, since the farther out put is at a lower strike price. On calls, the margin will be required when the farther out call is at a higher strike than the short call.

Should RIMM stabilize near the current level and not fall below 65 at October expiration, then the short put expires and the long put is retained in the account as a "free" option, e.g. it is held at no net cost. If sold at any price prior to expiration, it would be all profit.

The psychological cost and emotional stress of holding such a position can be significant for a volatile stock, especially if the stock price approaches the strike price of the short option.

I watched the prices of the November 90 calls vs. the October 85 calls, but don't recall seeing them trade at prices that could be entered at less than about .20 or .25 cost.

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To: Ira Player who wrote (3923)9/27/2009 10:39:12 PM
From: Jeffry K. Smith   of 5710
 
"For example, looking at DOW again, if I thought it was short term weak and about to recover. (Just an example, not interested at this time!)

To set up a Diagonal or Calendar Spread directly:

Buy Jan 11 DOW 25 Call for $5.30 and Sell Jan 10 DOW 25 Call for $2.95 -- Net Debit $2.35

To set up an intermediate Synthetic Long:

Buy Jan 11 DOW 25 Call for $5.30 and Sell Jan 10 DOW 25 Put for $2.60 -- Net Debit $2.70

Delta is almost 1 for this position. If DOW moves from 25.66 at start to 27.66 (It is a coincidence that it is exactly $2.00 difference in DOW to effect the options correctly.), the effects on the options discussed above would be:

Jan 11 DOW 25 Call -- From $5.30 to $6.65 -- Gain $1.35 (IV .363)
Jan 10 DOW 25 Call -- From $2.95 to $4.25 -- Gain $1.35 (IV .431)
Jan 10 DOW 25 Put -- From $2.60 to $1.90 -- Loss $0.70 (IV .560)

The Synthetic Long could be sold for a profit of $2.05 or

The Jan 10 DOW 25 Call could now be sold at $4.25 and the Jan 10 DOW 25 Put could be bought back for $1.90 -- Net Credit $2.35.

The first option provides an immediate gain (Or similar loss if DOW had gone to 23.66 instead of up).

The second option offsets the original $2.35 Debit, we have a position we can benefit from but cannot lose (further, explained below) and we have all of our capital back to establish new positions. Of course, there is the risk of the $2.05 we could have walked away with.

I have used this technique for several years and while I sometimes take a hit if wrong, I can often open several positions with the same capital, increasing leverage."


I've read your post over and over, and am still not clear about your "first option" and "second option" mentions.

Are you describing a situation were one establishes both a $2.35 and a $2.70 debit position, then go forward?

What throws me is this section:
"**The second option offsets the original $2.35 Debit**, we have a position we can benefit from but cannot lose (further, explained below) and we have all of our capital back to establish new positions. Of course, there is the risk of the $2.05 we could have walked away with."

The above paragraph doesn't make sense to me unless one establishes TWO spreads to begin with.

Can you help me?

Thanks much.

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To: Bridge Player who wrote (3928)9/27/2009 11:48:04 PM
From: Jeffry K. Smith   of 5710
 
Thank you very much for the explanation. It makes complete sense.

Of course, one has to pick the bottom near perfectly, or one will encounter as you have so well described, "the psychological cost and emotional stress of holding such a position". Been there, done that - recently.

Do you use any particular resources to identify stocks for option plays of whatever sort?

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To: Jeffry K. Smith who wrote (3930)9/28/2009 1:55:28 AM
From: Bridge Player   of 5710
 
I use IBD, Yahoo, TC2000, Barrons. Probably try to follow too many.

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To: Jeffry K. Smith who wrote (3925)9/28/2009 2:39:14 AM
From: Ira Player   of 5710
 
Because the Put deteriorated in value and the Call you intend to short has appreciated, you can hold the Diagonal Spread for a reduced Debit (Nut, in traders vernacular.).

Ira

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To: Jeffry K. Smith who wrote (3926)9/28/2009 2:43:46 AM
From: Ira Player   of 5710
 
In general, I look for underlying stocks that:

Are short term weak,
have significant IV skew and
I believe will recover soon.

If you look at the DOW example, the IV is much higher on the options I want to sell than it is on the option I want to buy.

If the IV corrects by becoming more consistent, the position gains value.

I don't have time to give more detail now, maybe later.

Ira

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To: Jeffry K. Smith who wrote (3929)9/28/2009 2:51:30 AM
From: Ira Player   of 5710
 
In my example I said:

"The Synthetic Long could be sold for a profit of $2.05 or

The Jan 10 DOW 25 Call could now be sold at $4.25 and the Jan 10 DOW 25 Put could be bought back for $1.90 -- Net Credit $2.35."

Those were the 2 options for transitioning from the Synthetic Long. Take a profit (or loss) on it directly or convert the Synthetic Long to a Diagonal Spread with the intent on selling a few more calls over the next year to earn some rental income.

If the timing is lucky, you end up collecting some premiums with almost no cash invested in the position. There is the risk of losing the 2.05 you could have taken, so there is money at risk. But it isn't the cash you had and that can be used to initiate other positions.

Also, of course, if you are wrong the Synthetic Long will lose value when the underlying decreases.

Ira

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To: Bridge Player who wrote (3928)9/28/2009 9:04:17 AM
From: Bridge Player   of 5710
 
I watched the prices of the November 90 calls vs. the October 85 calls, but don't recall seeing them trade at prices that could be entered at less than about .20 or .25 cost.

Correction: It was the November 80, October 75 calls diagonal that I was looking at.

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To: Jeffry K. Smith who wrote (3926)9/28/2009 11:38:58 AM
From: Bridge Player   of 5710
 
Diagonal spreads are those where the long option is at both a different strike and a different month than the short option.

If both options are the same strike but different months, it would be a calendar, or horizontal, spread.

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To: ETF Strangler who wrote (3919)9/28/2009 11:42:11 AM
From: ETF Strangler   of 5710
 
IF USO Oct 37 calls get above $1 I will sell the Call side of my short strangle. That will give me a 33/37 short strangle as I have previously sold USO Oct 33 Puts for $1.01 (Msg 3919). Is it possible?

Good Fortune to all.

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