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To: ChinuSFO who wrote (99044)8/6/2011 12:43:14 PM
From: Jim McMannis
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"I am expecting the blame game for the S&P downgrade to begin in earnest."

Barney Frank blamed it on "conservative" S&P.

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To: manalagi who wrote (99028)8/6/2011 12:55:08 PM
From: tejek
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Do you really think the S & P would have liked that one better? A constitutional crisis? A president under impeachment?

Yes, I think that the market will like it better. The debt of the US will be paid without any question. It shows that POTUS can stand his ground for the sake of the country.

Manalagi, I really am so tired of this discourse that just goes round and round in a circle. Read the damn statement by the S & P........in its entirety. Their main concern is the political divisions in DC. The constant bickering.......back stabbing........unwillingness to compromise. And they blame both sides.
Even after the WH showed them on Friday that their numbers were off by $2 trillion and the financial situation is not nearly as dire as they were predicting, they claim they called all their members including the ones in Europe who were asleep, and polled to see if they should go through with the downgrade. And their members were unanimous......downgrade the US. The world is watching and they don't like what they see. China has been firing missiles over our bow for weeks.

A constitutional crisis? How could that be since the constitution specifically stated that the US debt shall not be questioned. And abiding to the constitution is wrong? That would be a first. Even Bill Clinton who is no dummy suggested that.

Not everyone agrees with your interpretation.......in fact, as many disagree as agree. And for good reason..........you are shifting more powers from Congress to the executive branch.........an issue that in the past has concerned many constitutional professors and lawyers. Over the years, there has been a gradual shifting of power from Congress to the presidency. The fear is if you get the wrong president in place........one who has dictatorial aspirations.......and that could be the end of our democracy. After all, the president controls the military.

Raising the debt ceiling has been the purview of Congress since the nation was founded.
Congress has pretty much lost the power to declare war. Losing control over the debt ceiling would be another blow to their powers guaranteed in the constituation. And you don't think that would trigger a constitutional crisis? I disagree.

Impeachment? Extremists will do anything to impeach Obama, just like extremists impeached Clinton for having an affair with an intern. Granted that he lied about the definition of sex.

Impeachment of the president of the US in the midst of the worst US recession since WW II. How comforting do you think that would be to the rest of the world? What do you think that will do their confidence levels? If you are not worried about American prestige, then think about this..........the dollar is the world currency. English is the lingua franca to the world. During this recession, that has been our saving grace. Its why we are not in the mess that Spain and Italy are. We lose that edge and we are screwed. There is much talk these days of making the renminbi the world's currency. Pray that that doesn't happen. These are serious times........we don't need a grandstanding president under impeachment when so much is at stake.


DNDN: sorry to learn that you own that stock.

I have built up a lot of cash since the late July when Baidu reported earnings and made a new high. Next week will allow for buying opportunities to buy blue chip defensive stocks. Just as what Warren Buffet said: "It's raining gold".

I too went to cash except for my core positions. I hadn't heard the rumors about the S&P on Friday. I thought that Moody's and Fitch's maintaining their triple A ratings was kind of the all clear. I was more worried about Europe. When things were looking better in Europe and given the decent employment report, I put my cash to work. Now I am screwed big time. It looks like I will lose everything. Not good.

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To: Jim McMannis who wrote (99048)8/6/2011 1:00:37 PM
From: tejek
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Republicans Want Geithner to Walk The Plank After Credit Downgrade

Read more: foxnews.com

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To: Jim McMannis who wrote (99048)8/6/2011 1:02:02 PM
From: tejek
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Why don't we blame the teapers who refused to look a balanced approach to dealing with our debt crisis as noted by the S&P. What do you think about that, McMannis?

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To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (99033)8/6/2011 1:18:20 PM
From: tejek
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Consider the inverse indexes VXX, TVIX, and SKF as hedges, but be warned these are very volatile creatures. They should soar though if the big drop comes.


The markets are badly oversold..........there have been only 8 other times they have been this oversold since 1998. What I am expecting to happen on Monday is that the markets will drop big and then bounce. Had I had all my cash I would have bought a ton at the bottom of the bounce and rode it up....which is how I can make some good money esp. now that my portfolio has been decimated. I lost that most of that opportunity by buying so much on Friday.

But what has be more worried is going forward...........its growing more and more likely that we will go back into recession and I will not be able to make my monthly nut. I am screwed.....big time.

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To: ChinuSFO who wrote (99044)8/6/2011 1:28:14 PM
From: zeta1961
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a bad name for the US unlike unemployment which is a personal issue.


Yes...as if the debt ceiling fight were not enough.


I found a really depressing, for us, assessment on Der Spiegel last night and I didn't have the heart to post it anywhere.


He didn't blame Obama. Although he implied TeaPartier racism ever so delicately. One major point he made was how the politics of hate, and what he calls "godfather-like" funding of the tea party by the Koch's and Murdoch's "hate-stirring" fox news have basically poisoned the willingness of the 2 parties to compromise and therefore run a successful democracy.


Sounds melodramatic but folk here and on Pal's thread have been posting about this concern for quite a while now. Here it is if you want to get depressed;-(


spiegel.de

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To: koan who wrote (98872)8/6/2011 1:40:13 PM
From: tejek
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<<Other countries don't have teapers. That helps a lot.>>

Some do, but do you know why some don't?


Because they listen to Paul Krugman?

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To: zeta1961 who wrote (99053)8/6/2011 2:13:12 PM
From: tejek
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Sounds melodramatic but folk here and on Pal's thread have been posting about this concern for quite a while now. Here it is if you want to get depressed;-(

Its what I have been saying and seeing for years. The splintering sound you hear is these disunited states breaking up. The one thing with which I disagree........I think what is happening will lead to violence and a balkanization of the country.

We have truly lost our way. If there is any doubt, go back to the article and read the comments below. Wingers have already gotten there.

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To: tejek who wrote (99054)8/6/2011 2:14:13 PM
From: koan
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<<<<Other countries don't have teapers. That helps a lot.>>

Some do, but do you know why some don't?


Because they listen to Paul Krugman?


The taboo subject: religion.

Who are the Teapers? Mostly right wing conservative Christians. Look at gov Perry's Christian rally today. It is sponsered by outragous right wing groups who say Hitler used gays in the nazi concentration camps because they are ruthless. And groups who say terrible things about Obama. In Gov Perry's world this is mainstream stuff.

Europe and other western countries have much more modern cultural diffusion than we do. So they have shed a lot of myth and primitive script and incorporated much more modern social systems with things like universal health care, free education. And Denmark, considerd the happiest nation on earth, also has among the fewest religious folks on earth.

Norway and sweden have the safest currencies in the world, and thriving economies, despite high taxes, and they have free education, universal health care and functioning social systems. Very little religion and very few Teapers.

So where are the worlds Teapers? Middle east! And what do we have in common with the middle east? Religion.

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To: zeta1961 who wrote (99053)8/6/2011 2:21:18 PM
From: tejek
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A timeline of events

Let’s take a stroll down memory lane, shall we?

1980: Ronald Reagan runs for president, promising a balanced budget

1981 - 1989: With support from congressional Republicans, Reagan runs enormous deficits, adds $2 trillion to the debt.

1993: Bill Clinton passes economic plan that lowers deficit, gets zero votes from congressional Republicans.

1998: U.S. deficit disappears for the first time in three decades. Debt clock is unplugged.

2000: George W. Bush runs for president, promising to maintain a balanced budget.

2001: CBO shows the United States is on track to pay off the entirety of its national debt within a decade.

2001 - 2009: With support from congressional Republicans, Bush runs enormous deficits, adds nearly $5 trillion to the debt.

2002: Dick Cheney declares, “Deficits don’t matter.” Congressional Republicans agree, approving tax cuts, two wars, and Medicare expansion without even trying to pay for them.

2009: Barack Obama inherits $1.3 trillion deficit from Bush; Republicans immediately condemn Obama’s fiscal irresponsibility.

2009: Congressional Democrats unveil several domestic policy initiatives — including health care reform, cap and trade, DREAM Act — which would lower the deficit. GOP opposes all of them, while continuing to push for deficit reduction.

September 2010: In Obama’s first fiscal year, the deficit shrinks by $122 billion. Republicans again condemn Obama’s fiscal irresponsibility.

October 2010: S&P endorses the nation’s AAA rating with a stable outlook, saying the United States looks to be in solid fiscal shape for the foreseeable future.

November 2010: Republicans win a U.S. House majority, citing the need for fiscal responsibility.

December 2010: Congressional Republicans demand extension of Bush tax cuts, relying entirely on deficit financing. GOP continues to accuse Obama of fiscal irresponsibility.

March 2011: Congressional Republicans declare intention to hold full faith and credit of the United States hostage — a move without precedent in American history — until massive debt-reduction plan is approved.

July 2011: Obama offers Republicans a $4 trillion debt-reduction deal. GOP refuses, pushes debt-ceiling standoff until the last possible day, rattling international markets.

August 2011: S&P downgrades U.S. debt, citing GOP refusal to consider new revenues. Republicans rejoice and blame Obama for fiscal irresponsibility.

There have been several instances since the mid 1990s in which I genuinely believed Republican politics couldn’t possibly get more blisteringly ridiculous. I was wrong; they just keep getting worse.

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