Politics | Actual left/right wing discussion


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To: one_less who wrote (9109)12/16/2010 5:59:01 PM
From: neolib   of 10071
 
Yeah, or freedom of speech per the Supreme Court. What happens when people spend large sums of money to confuse voters?

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To: neolib who wrote (9113)12/16/2010 6:09:00 PM
From: one_less2 Recommendations   of 10071
 
"What happens when people spend large sums of money to confuse voters?"

We trust our elected leaders and our social spokespersons to give us the straight and honest scoop. But what happens when they are entangled with the payoff.

Most political corruption is a function of social influence, group think pressure, and the frailty of human character. In modern times it is exercised more often by what a person in power allows under their watch, than by personal actions committed directly by politicians. So this or that unseemly circumstance is not caused directly by particular politicians but allowed to take place none the less. This has been learned over centuries of watching how organized crime bosses are able to avoid incrimination and has become so endemic in the system as to be nearly unavoidable for politicians even in the best of circumstances.

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To: neolib who wrote (9111)12/16/2010 6:09:47 PM
From: Lane3   of 10071
 
Google Dogs, Monkeys Fairness.

I'm aware of that work. I'm not sure what it can tell us that is useful. Since fairness is not an on/off switch, unless the research can pick one model of fairness over others as the "right" one, what good is it? And I don't see how monkey or cockroach fairness will tell us that.

Certain ideological perspectives think "fairness" is a dirty word

I suspect that "certain ideological perspectives" mostly react negatively to other "certain ideological perspectives" yapping about it all the time. <g>

Seriously, one of the few certainties I have is that fairness is a figment, one that everyone perceives differently. They perceive it differently as both general principle and relative to their particular interests in particular cases. This is so at the micro level and the macro level sure doesn't make it any clearer chaotic. Never gonna solve that one.

It is not useful to claim something is unfair when there are just different models of fairness in play.

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To: Lane3 who wrote (9079)12/16/2010 6:22:02 PM
From: koan   of 10071
 
<<You didn't answer that question, just went on a rant about oil companies. I'd be interested in your answer if you have one.>>


Can you ask the question again?

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To: one_less who wrote (9114)12/16/2010 6:22:08 PM
From: Lane31 Recommendation   of 10071
 
Powerful influence and its fallout are certainly a problem. But it occurs with or without concentrated wealth, ergo it can't be caused by concentrated wealth, seems to me. We need to target the factors that allow corrupting influence if we want to get rid of that distortion in our system, otherwise we're just flailing. If there were fewer prizes to be reaped from lobbying the government, there would be less lobbying action.

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To: one_less who wrote (9081)12/16/2010 6:28:18 PM
From: koan   of 10071
 
I agree. Gets complicated-lol. Time for a glass of wine.

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To: Lane3 who wrote (9115)12/16/2010 6:55:33 PM
From: neolib   of 10071
 
I'm not sure what it can tell us that is useful

Its useful in that it counters this:

Seriously, one of the few certainties I have is that fairness is a figment, one that everyone perceives differently.

What it says is that we have a very long evolutionary history that has found the concept of fairness somehow useful, so it is highly doubtful that its either a "figment" or that "everyone perceives it differently". Its the start of significantly constraining just making stuff up about fairness, which is what philosophy/ideology is largely about.

TWT.

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To: Oeconomicus who wrote (9107)12/16/2010 6:59:26 PM
From: koan   of 10071
 
You ever consider joining the reality based community-lol.

I laugh a lot. I am a happy guy-lol.

I don't expect a curmudgeon, Scrooge, right winger to understand joy and laughter-lol.

What I said was correct. So think about it.


<<INDIVIDUALS pay no state income taxes. . . Yes, we tax corporations at the rate they should be taxed-lol."

If you think individuals - particularly consumers and workers - do not bear the burden of corporate taxes, you are sadly mistaken. Corporations do not pay income taxes, even when they write the checks. Their customers, their employees, and their shareholders pay them.

As for the rest, yeah yeah yeah. Everything bad in AK is because of some "right winger" and everything good is because of the good work of socialists and progressives (if that's not redundant) like you. Whatever.

BTW, you should really reconsider your practice of ending every third or fourth sentence with "-lol". Someone might mistake you for a 13 year old girl.

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To: neolib who wrote (9119)12/16/2010 7:09:30 PM
From: Lane3   of 10071
 
Should I infer that you think that there's only one model of fairness and everything else is unfairness? If so, how do you know which one is the right one?

so it is highly doubtful that its either a "figment" or that "everyone perceives it differently"

You've obviously never done labor relations or dealt with employee grievances or investigated management problems or designed a performance management system.

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To: Lane3 who wrote (9121)12/16/2010 7:11:42 PM
From: neolib   of 10071
 
Should I infer that you think that there's only one model of fairness and everything else is unfairness?

Of course not. The field has been wide open, and is only now starting to get constrained. But that is what scientific models do.

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