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From: gpowell8/24/2010 5:24:09 PM
of 97
 
Wow! it's been a while since I posted on SI. I see a lot of the high post count members from a few years ago are gone. And what happened to the housing crash thread? Nothing about housing that I can see.

Anyway thinking back on housing I think the factors I outlined here that might lead to a 20 year bear market in real-estate are playing out nicely:

Message 22226215

I don't think you comprehended my post(s). The baby boom demographic bubble justifies the price appreciation up to about 2005, but as the boomers retire and die, we should see housing decline (in relative terms) and long rates rise. While, timing is always difficult to predict, and one cannot predict whether other factors might compensate, we could be at the start of a 20-year bear market in housing due entirely to demographic shifts. 3-3-2006

What I clearly did not appreciate at the time was the amount of outright fraud that developed as a result of the over-expansion of the secondary mortgage market. That led directly to the bubble seen after 2004. From my perspective you can lay all of the blame on the federal government's involvement and promotion of this market. And there's enough recently published academic literature to insure that the government's role in this will not be forgotten.

And, as is typical, the pendulum has swung way to the other side. With current housing investors finding it difficult to bring income from the future, i.e. borrow, to purchase long lived assets. It really is a tragic comedy when viewed from afar. Not so much if you part on the wrong side of the bubble.

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To: gpowell who wrote (91)8/24/2010 5:52:05 PM
From: gpowell of 97
 
It really is a tragic comedy when viewed from afar. Not so much if you part of the wrong side of the bubble.

For my self, I sold real estate into the bubble from 2003 to mid 2006. I made out pretty well, overall. And because I think real estate is dead for a while, I have no desire to buy back into those homes even though they're 30% to 50% below their sale price now. In the Bay Area, you cannot buy real estate even at today's market prices and make much rental income. All economic profit must come from price appreciation.

On the flip side I have one friend who lost their home, and another who is way upside down on several rentals. Neither were really cognizant of the historically low rates that were prevalent in the decade. And even though we had conversations about the dangers of adjustable rates resetting upwards, they just didn't seem to understand what that really meant. It came as quite a shock to them to learn they couldn't re-fi when the market price of their homes caved.

Then there is the case of another online "friend" who I had many many discussions with about the past direction of real estate in the Bay Area. They thought housing had peaked around 1998 and had declined all the way through 2004 or so. Consequently they viewed the very tip of the bubble as the "firming up" of a depressed market. From what I gather, they finally took the plunge and purchased a couple of homes right at peak of market, and at ground zero of the bust.

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To: gpowell who wrote (59)9/20/2010 11:25:39 AM
From: gpowell of 97
 
As I mentioned to you several years ago, I don't expect the FED to try to defend the level of real wages and that almost guarantees a fairly deep and long recession soon. Was it you that mentioned a repeat of 90-92? I think it's going to be much worse than that.

Well, the The National Bureau of Economic Research just declared this past recession the longest since World War II.


Also see: Message 24656994

It's likely the US will undergo a recession soon as households adjust to their lowered standard of living.

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To: gpowell who wrote (92)5/9/2011 9:47:31 PM
From: gpowell of 97
 
Might as well update this:

On the flip side I have one friend who lost their home, and another who is way upside down on several rentals.

So....the friend who was upside down....walked away from one rental. They owed $600,000 and the home was sold at a short-sale for $250,000 (all cash). Based on the prevailing rental rates and expected expenses, and assuming zero appreciation, the buyer has a decent chance at an "economic" return (1% to 2% or so).

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To: gpowell who wrote (94)5/10/2011 3:16:00 AM
From: gpowell of 97
 
So....the friend who was upside down....walked away from one rental. They owed $600,000 and the home was sold at a short-sale for $250,000 (all cash). Based on the prevailing rental rates and expected expenses, and assuming zero appreciation, the buyer has a decent chance at an "economic" return (1% to 2% or so).

This was a month or so ago. Indicating the short-sale foreclosure cycle has not completely run its course in the Bay Area. All we'll need now is another recession to set off another wave of foreclosures, but that should do it, imo. Home prices by then would almost certainly be fully reset back to long-term trends.

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To: gpowell who wrote (95)5/16/2011 8:20:44 PM
From: John Vosilla of 97
 
329 homes in and near Oakland for sale under $100k..most are probably ghetto but part of the mix in getting a sense of stability

realtor.com 

Worth revisting to see if it gets worse or better in 6 to 12 months..

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From: Doctor Zeus6/22/2011 2:29:55 PM
of 97
 
US Net Household Wealth



Interesting article here suggesting that net household wealth is the key and it is going up despite the weakness in real estate. Article link here...

goo.gl/qEPr9

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