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To: Sam who wrote (189536)5/19/2012 1:07:37 PM
From: Dale Baker
of 263098
 
Stupid is as stupid says and does. Once I decided not to worry much about the idiotic crap I see people believing, it was a great relief. Not my department.

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To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (189519)5/19/2012 1:08:37 PM
From: koan
of 263098
 
<<I'm just pointing out that LBJ's deception had far more reaching consequences than anything Nixon>>

And we liberals fought LBJ tooth and nail.

NIxon lied about having a secret plan to get out of Viet Nam and then let the war go on for 4 more years for pure political reasons, gaining nothing), which meant an extra 20,000 Americans and countless Viet Namese were killed and maimed and suffered. That is classic sociopathic behavior.



<<did and that Clinton's moral failing's probably handed the election to Bush.>>

I agree it may have handed the election to Bush, but only because we voters are stupid.

It was not a moral failing. It was a BJ which has no more to do with morality than eating a hot dog. It is only a moral failing in the minds of the Tea party types who never made it out of the 13th century and think like children.



<<Additionally how many Democrats voted against going to war against Iraq (Two, I think. Dellums and the black female representative from Oakland Calif) So it's not if you can claim Sainthood for the Democrats.>>



I am with you here, except I blame the people more than the dems. The dems remembered what happened to Earnest Greuning and Wayne Morse whne they voted agaisnt the tonkin gulf resolution. They both lost their reelection .

The dems wanted to vote against the war (that coutns for something), but they know how stupid Americans are, and it would mean the end of their political career.

Still, I am with you, i.e. they probably should have gone out fighting the good fight. It is a close call though as then only the mindless right wing hawks would be in congress.

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To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (189520)5/19/2012 1:11:41 PM
From: koan
of 263098
 
<<We are not going to agree on this. But the impeachment (no matter what the cause) led to Clinton being an ineffective leader for his last 2 years in office which led to Bush. It wasn't the dalliance so much as it was the stupidity of it.>>


The impeachment was a set up by a bunch of venal morons.

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To: Cogito who wrote (189539)5/19/2012 1:20:26 PM
From: koan
of 263098
 
<<I was out there, too, despite being only a teenager.>>



That doesn't surprise me. You examine life. A friend came over yesterday and we were talking about trying to live in the world of reality and how few do.

Most just go through life living like squirrels i.e. just reacting according to whatever script they are handed and living their entire lives right on the sruface of life which is all an illusion. I see it evey day. They are totally oblivious and incurious to the abstract world of ideas.

It never ceases to puzzle me.

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To: No Mo Mo who wrote (189515)5/19/2012 1:23:57 PM
From: Win Smith
of 263098
 
I'm afraid the judgement has been made that Walker will likely win, and that an all-out effort would make Obama look bad. But Obama and Democrats are going to look bad, regardless.

One thing I learned from the first post-Walker election here, where one of the Republican hacks on the state Supreme Court retained his seat despite an all-out effort, is that motivation can't outrun the conservative machine- motivated Democrats make for motivated Republicans. If only the reverse were true, 2010 wouldn't have been the disaster it was.

The national conservative machine has been fully engaged in Wisconsin from the start. For just the most obvious example, the current RNC chairman, Reince Priebus, is from Walker's chief political law firm, Michael Best in Milwaukee. The movement against Walker was a genuine grass roots movement, but the Walker campaign has relentlessly portrayed it as run by out-of-state agitators. It's beyond irony into the surreal realm, given how much time Walker has spent out-of-state being a conservative darling, but it seems to have worked- allegedly, 40% of union members in Wisconsin are planning to vote for Walker.

I'd write more, but it makes me depressed.


PS: more irony: On the page you quoted/linked, we have this ad:



They were also playing Walker ads on the local Air America liberal talk radio station when I last listened. Walker apparently has more money than he can spend. Thank you, SCOTUS Republican hacks. I guess Gore v. Bush was just the beginning. Plutocracy, here we come.

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To: epicure who wrote (189542)5/19/2012 1:28:51 PM
From: John Vosilla
of 263098
 
The left "fringe" is still a small minority, despite the fact that the extreme right thinks the democratic center is "communist".


I guarantee most on the extreme right have roots in their bible belt cocoon going back centuries and have never had first hand contact with anyone who actually went through communism.. Probably the big exception is the Cuban faction but even they are total hypocrites given the favorable treatment no other immigrant group has gotten in the modern era.

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To: koan who wrote (189548)5/19/2012 1:33:37 PM
From: John Vosilla
of 263098
 
The Kennedy family desperately needed LBJ to have any chance of winning given his Irish Catholic background perhaps as unique to the presidency at that time as Obama's is today. They never trusted him and kept him on a leash till the tragic shooting Nov 1963. How different would the world be if JFK had served two full terms?

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To: bentway who wrote (189545)5/19/2012 1:35:01 PM
From: JohnM
of 263098
 
McCain and Whitehouse take on Citizens United
Thanks for posting that. I missed the story. It's very good to hear that someone is doing something.

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To: John Vosilla who wrote (189553)5/19/2012 1:35:40 PM
From: koan
of 263098
 
How much would have been different if JFK, MLK and Bobby Kennedy had lived?

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To: koan who wrote (189555)5/19/2012 1:43:15 PM
From: John Vosilla
of 263098
 
Would a drawn out Vietnam war have occurred if JFK had lived? Even without JFK would we have pulled out immediately if Bobby won in 1968?

How instrumental was LBJ in passing civil rights legislation and the great society program even though Bobby and MLK were still around? Would JFK have handled it differently? I hear LBJ was the true master of deal making and getting the necessary votes to push through an agenda..

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