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From: epicure4/3/2012 9:39:51 AM
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I am sure I've seen this before, but one of my Facebook friends posted it again- and it's so funny:

goodeatsfanpage.com

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To: Cogito who wrote (186525)4/3/2012 10:16:25 AM
From: Bread Upon The Water
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Yes. The equivalent of another "Gulf of Tonkin" incident.

What we need is some sort of ability to criminally redress events like these when it can be shown that there is more than just misjudgment at work.

It would take an independent special prosecutor to take much of the politics out of it.

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To: Cogito who wrote (186527)4/3/2012 10:17:54 AM
From: Bread Upon The Water
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"No argument there. Bunch of lily-livered skunks."

And low down lying varmints!

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From: epicure4/3/2012 10:31:45 AM
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Fun with climate change- there's always something interesting cropping up:

sciencedaily.com

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From: epicure4/3/2012 10:54:10 AM
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Too funny- where do the republicans dig up these morons with their moron memes. Oh sure- republicans will tell you it's democrats making things up- but Santorum? Does anyone have more bullshit in their suitcase than he does? Now he's saying the CA universities don't teach US history. What a goofball. You can't graduate without taking US history. Damn. Republicans should be embarrassed- but they don't appear to have the capacity for that.

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To: bentway who wrote (186530)4/3/2012 11:01:56 AM
From: Bread Upon The Water
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I appreciate the information Bentway. Coincidentally I was in country the same time as Powell. IN July of 1968 I had recently complete a 6 month stint as an Infantry Platoon Leader in the 9th Infantry Division (Mekong Delta) and had been present at the battle of Ben Tre during the 68 Tet Offensive. That's the battle that produced the quote "we had to destroy the city in order to save it". (Frances Fitzgerald "The Fire in the Lake".) In July I was serving as a junior staff officer on the First Brigade Staff (air mobile) of the 9th Inf Div in its operations center.

I think it is stretch to use the information presented to say Powell "handled" My Lai. He was just routinely dealing with a staff matter assigned to him although I fault him for not questioning the soldier (Glen) personally so as to ascertain the source of Glen's facts.

From my perspective Staff officers are often shielded or immune to the facts happening on the ground (there are so many of them). Additionally, the pressures of the everyday combat operations sweep all but the most significant facts aside. If Powell had been personally charged to investigate My Lai that would have been one thing, but this charge by Glen was more or of a routine matter for a Staff Officer. Was it under investigated? No doubt, but not a My Lai cover up.

As to GI attitudes toward the Vietnamese. My take is that they varied greatly and a lot depended on the character of the leadership under which they served. In war one can always find the great gamuts of human emotions on display. I think the amorphous nature of the war frustrated a lot of the higher command as it was harder to measure progress (or lack thereof), by any of the standard measures (captured or destroyed enemy armies or territories as their were no standing enemy armies {shadows in the night} or held territory and this led to a fall back plan of favorable "statistics" to denote combat success which led to further depersonalization of the enemy).

In short, there were probably acts of cruelty going on in Powell's Units area of operations and Powell and the people above him probably could have done a better job of managing this, but a deliberate coverup by Powell it was not. Could they have learned more if better investigated---yes, no doubt. But keep in mind in a lot of these situations ascertaining the "facts" of the matter is not easy thing as there are always two or more versions of the event and the credibility of the witnesses varies greatly.

The first priority of the Division Leadership was the ongoing nature of the continuing campaigns they were conducting (as that is how they were going to be judged) and everything else was secondary unless it threatened to become a "distraction". In short they were men answering to the standards they were conditioned to answer to---imperfect as that situation is/was for dealing with the allegations of Glen.

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To: Suma who wrote (186531)4/3/2012 11:12:52 AM
From: Bread Upon The Water
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I have to point Suma that the point of a strip search prior to entering a confinement facility is to prevent contraband from entering the facility--and even with strip searches contraband manages to find it's way into the facility (drugs, weapons).

It's the guards in the facility that then have to deal with the fallout from the contraband inside it.

Now put yourself in their shoes.

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To: epicure who wrote (186536)4/3/2012 11:13:38 AM
From: epicure
of 261415
 
Here's the dumb dork spouting his fantasies:

wonkette.com

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To: epicure who wrote (186539)4/3/2012 12:04:58 PM
From: Dale Baker
of 261415
 
The only consolation of the goofy Republican primary is that every pure winger has been judged too weird, wacky and/or outright stupid to be the nominee of even the Republican party, much less be considered as president of the US.

IOW, the conservative activist movement has utterly failed to produce a competent, successful national leader.

Oops. That's a wee problem in politics.

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To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (186537)4/3/2012 12:21:58 PM
From: Cogito
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Thanks for the first-hand perspective.

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