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To: Cogito who wrote (183669)2/25/2012 3:56:12 PM
From: ChinuSFO
of 375013
Allen, I don't have anything against whites. Many voted for Obama and that shows their enlightenment. I have very good opinion od whites. Very honest people. All our physicians are white by choice. That I actively seek out and freely choose to entrust our family's health to white doctors says it all. And I am not white.

But there always some bad apples. And they are the ones I refer to and I am sure you do too.

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To: Dale Baker who wrote (183673)2/25/2012 3:57:35 PM
From: Cogito
of 375013
>>Men are no longer in the ascendant, boo hoo, grow up and get over it.<<

Exactly. What are these men afraid of, being beaten by a girl?

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To: Cogito who wrote (183681)2/25/2012 4:05:52 PM
From: Dale Baker
of 375013
They are afraid they will have to compete with a "girl" instead of just ordering her around, dismissing her, parking her at home or the secretary's desk where she "belongs" and so on. Mostly, they are afraid that the clique of white male executives who ran things exclusively until the 60's is being steadily pared back to just another group in the workforce that will have to compete with, cooperate with and respect others outside their little clique.

I always loathed petty prejudices like they embrace. Good riddance to people who can't respect others and accept differences.

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From: Dale Baker2/25/2012 4:23:40 PM
of 375013
Compare these to the rallies Obama has done hundreds of times since he first declared for president more than 5 years ago:

Two Michigan rallies reveal Romney, Santorum flaws
By David A. Fahrenthold, Saturday, February 25, 2:35 PM

SHELBY TOWNSHIP, Mich. — When Mitt Romney arrived for a rally in this Detroit suburb, he needed a crew of roadies to unpack him. His campaign brought its own flags and its own chairs and its own stage and its own DJ, using a special “Romney-Michigan” playlist with Kid Rock and Kiss.

The Romney people even brought their own doughnuts: 35 dozen of the Detroit favorite called paczki (“punch-kee”), in flavors including strawberry, rose-hip and prune.

Rick Santorum does not provide doughnuts.

He does not provide music, either. Or flags. Or chairs. At a Santorum rally in Holland, Mich. — a day earlier on the opposite side of this desperately contested state — the candidate brought a sweater vest. Three of his children: “Numbers two, three and four,” he said. And a banner that wouldn’t stay on the wall.

“What’s at stake in this election is the concept of limited government and of a free people building this great and just society,” Santorum said as his supporters stood or sat uncomfortably on the carpet. One woman keeled over after standing too long, prompting organizers and the police to tend to her.

Two men. Two rallies. This week in Michigan, a pair of campaign events revealed the deep — and opposite — flaws that have kept either front-runner from running away with the GOP nomination.

Romney uses a grandiose campaign to deliver relatively modest ideas.

He rolls into town like a state fair. Then he comes out to talk about tax policy and “America the Beautiful.” That has attracted a crowd of people with sensible minivans and serious economic worries. But it doesn’t win over Republicans who want the president to be a moral spokesman instead of just a national CEO.

This instinct toward grand stagecraft backfired on Romney on Friday, when he gave an economic speech at Detroit’s cavernous Ford Field. That venue outstripped even Romney’s impressive campaign machine: It wasn’t enough to camouflage an empty stadium.

Santorum, by contrast, uses a modest campaign to espouse deeply grandiose ideas.

His premise is that only he — a man who lacks the logistical wherewithal to rustle up snacks — can manage to rebuild the nuclear family and save freedom itself. That has made him a surprise front-runner. But it has done little to reassure the practical-minded part of the GOP base.

“Your values — your values — will return to the White House and to our country!” Santorum said when he finished his talk.

“I need your help!” Romney said when he finished his.

Santorum in Holland, Mich.

The date of the Michigan primary — Feb. 28 — had been known for four months. But it wasn’t until last weekend that Santorum’s campaign contacted people at Hope College, a Christian school in Michigan’s conservative west. They needed a room for 200 people. And they needed it Monday.

Santorum’s people were both late and wrong. Their man was surging in Michigan — they needed a room for 400 people.

His supporters filled the college’s auditorium 90 minutes before the rally. Then they filled the overflow room, with a crowd like that on a parents’ weekend: young students and gray-haired couples. The audience watched two organizers try to hang up Santorum’s lone banner, which read “Made in America.”

“Awww!” the crowd said when it fell down again.

“Not all of ’em are Christian,” said Jim Newhouse, talking about the presidential candidates as his wife, Marj, encouraged him to stop. “Romney’s a Mormon. And Newt — I don’t know what Newt is.”

Newt Gingrich, who has played little role in the Michigan race, is Catholic.

The Newhouses said their other favorite politicians included Ronald Reagan and televangelist and 1988 GOP candidate Pat Robertson. Only a strong conservative like Santorum, they said, could beat President Obama this time.

“We took a moderate, McCain, last time. And he didn’t win,” Jim Newhouse said, referring to the 2008 Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain (Ariz.).

Santorum’s warm-up act was a local preacher who said he came from “a Puritan tradition” and then uncorked a prayer in ye olde language. “The world is artful to entrap,” he said. “Let our faith scan every painted trifle and escape every bewitching snare.”

Then Santorum came out in his trademark sweater vest and spoke calmly about frightening things. He compared Obama to Britain’s King George III, the monarch who lost the American Revolution.

“Barack Obama’s view of America is the same view, well, that the sovereigns of old had,” Santorum said, “which is that Americans are better off being ruled by smart people, the elite snobs.” He had examples: Government now had a role in individual health-insurance decisions. It had attempted to limit when churches could fire their own ministers.

“Next, it’s going to go to the grocery store,” Santorum said, “and say how much money that they’ll be able to have to stock their shelves.”

Santorum said his goals were not just to defeat Obama and cut $5 trillion from the federal debt. There was more.

“Children having children. Families not forming,” Santorum said. “America’s a different country. We need solutions, that talk about .?.?. how we’re going to bring fathers back involved in their children’s lives.”

Here, Santorum avoided one of Gingrich’s tendencies. He didn’t propose complicated solutions to these complicated problems. Gingrich’s complex policy ideas on Social Security, immigration and taxes have attracted some voters but turned others off. Santorum stayed simple. The only specific plan he mentioned for rebuilding the country’s family structure was to change parts of the tax code that penalized married couples.

At the end, Santorum shook hands while his theme music — silence — filled the room.

In the crowd, Jim Newhouse was impressed: “I liked everything he was saying.”

Romney in Shelby Township, Mich.

Romney’s event, like many of his rallies, was held in a factory. This one makes “automated robotic fabrication systems.” His crews started setting up at noon the day before.

The big pieces of Romney’s stagecraft are always impressive: the DJ, the American flag as tall as a house. But his campaign also does the little things. The folding chairs are tied together with zip ties, so you couldn’t unstraighten Romney’s rows if you tried. Romney’s message — that he is the only Republican in the race built from presidential timber — is reinforced by the slickness of these events. It looks as if he’s president already.

And yet it somehow wasn’t enough.

“Mitt Romney is fighting like an underdog! But you know what? Michigan loves an underdog!” said the state’s attorney general, former congressman Bill Schuette (R), who introduced the candidate. Romney was running neck-and-neck, in the state of his birth, with an ex-senator that Pennsylvania had kicked out six years ago. “Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce the Comeback Kid, Mitt Romney, the next president of the United States of America!”

The Comeback Kid walked out smiling, wearing a button-down shirt and jeans.

And immediately messed something up.

“By the way, how was the paczkis this morning? Yeah, yeah! That was very good,” Romney said. His message: We are not so different, you and I. We have both just eaten the same food! But then Romney started talking about the powdered sugar on the paczki.

There was no powdered sugar. The donuts were glazed and bare.

“Reminded me of what’s going on outside,” Romney said, comparing the falling snow to a doughnut that people had not eaten (had he not really eaten one of the paczki, after all? Had Romney’s campaign given the naked doughnuts to the crowd, while Romney himself was eating upgraded sugar-dusted ones backstage?). It was one of several unforced errors. Romney also referred several times to “my state” — and meant Massachusetts, not Michigan.

Once he got going, Romney said that Obama is “taking us on a path to become more like Greece. Or Worse. I will not allow that. I will cut spending. I will cap spending, and I will finally balance our budget.”

Romney’s speeches are sprinkled with “by the way,” as he thinks of a piece of his stump speech, and throws it in as a non sequitur. “I love the hymns of America, by the way,” he said, before starting his usual recital of “America the Beautiful.”

Romney’s best line of the day was unscripted. A stray Canadian had driven down from Ontario to ask Romney a question and in the process joked that Romney could not have his ID card for Canada’s national health-care system.

The ball sat on the tee for a long second before Romney hit it. “I don’t want it!” Romney said. The crowd roared.

Romney’s audience was different from Santorum’s audience. It was a crowd that cared about economics, with no sloganeering bumper stickers on their minivans (Santorum’s was a car-decorating crowd: “Abortion is NOT Healthcare.” “Warning — In Case of Rapture, This Car Will Be Unmanned.” At the Romney rally, the most you got was “My child is an honor student”).

Afterward, many in Romney’s audience said they’d heard what they needed to hear.

“The Canada thing was so great,” said Lori Mayo, 39, from Shelby Township. She’d been laid off from an auto company at the bottom of the recession, but had been hired back on as Detroit’s fortunes started to rebound. She said Romney’s fiscal message still made sense, even if the economy was coming back. “There’s still the debt. We still eventually have to face this debt.”

After Romney had said goodbye, shaken a few hands and departed, his roadies started packing up. When they had removed the chairs, left behind on the factory floor were little zip-ties, “reserved” placards that had held seats for VIPs, fliers that people had taken and discarded (“I’m with Mitt!” they said.) and a grease-stained paczki box.

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To: ChinuSFO who wrote (183680)2/25/2012 6:21:49 PM
From: Cogito
of 375013
>>Allen, I don't have anything against whites. Many voted for Obama and that shows their enlightenment. I have very good opinion od whites. Very honest people. All our physicians are white by choice. That I actively seek out and freely choose to entrust our family's health to white doctors says it all. And I am not white.<<

I'm white myself, and was making a joke. I've discovered that people are people, and while there are unquestionably cultural differences that may lend some truth to generalizations about groups of people, I try to see individuals for who they are. I fail at that, sometimes, of course, but I try.

One of the cool things about communicating in this medium is that one can't tell who's white, brown, or blue, who's gay or straight, or even what sex, sometimes. We know each other only by our words. In a way, that makes it harder to hide our true selves. Even if a person wants to hide his or her true self online, if you communicate with him or her long enough, you're going to know them.

At the same time, the lack of visual cues can lead to misunderstandings, as we all know. But I don't feel that I need to know what race a person is in order to know how to react to what they have to say.

I think I was fortunate to have spent my formative years in a racially integrated environment - Air Force bases all around the country. I was exposed to feminism as a young teenager, too, and was smart enough to understand what it was about, and to see the sexism that pervaded our society at that time. I am also grateful for that.

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To: Dale Baker who wrote (183682)2/25/2012 6:26:16 PM
From: Cogito
of 375013
>>Good riddance to people who can't respect others and accept differences.<<

Indeed. Fuck 'em.

It's unfortunate that there are so many of them that we're still forced to deal with them. Some of them even get elected to public office and manage to make laws that institutionalize their outmoded cultural assumptions. Fortunately, Democracy often works to correct for that, as we've seen in Virginia this past week.

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To: Cogito who wrote (183685)2/25/2012 7:01:12 PM
From: Dale Baker
of 375013
The kicking and howling we hear on these issues always comes from people who are slowly realizing that soon, they will have no one left that they can legally discriminate against. To paraphrase a great line from a very old Ray Bradbury story (in The Martian Chronicles), what are all those folks gonna do on Saturday night now?

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From: Dale Baker2/25/2012 7:41:19 PM
of 375013
Steven Rattner, the lead adviser on the Obama administration’s auto task force in 2009, smacked (Romney) down in a New York Times Op-Ed article for suggesting that the government “should have stayed on the sidelines” and allowed the companies to go through “ ‘managed bankruptcies’ financed by private capital.” As Rattner put it:

“That sounds like a wonderfully sensible approach — except that it’s utter fantasy. In late 2008 and early 2009, when G.M. and Chrysler had exhausted their liquidity, every scrap of private capital had fled to the sidelines. I know this because the administration’s auto task force, for which I was the lead adviser, spoke diligently to all conceivable providers of funds, and not one had the slightest interest in financing those companies on any terms. If Mr. Romney disagrees, he should come forward with specific names of willing investors in place of empty rhetoric. I predict that he won’t be able to, because there aren’t any.”

More of that delusional lying bullshit problem that seems to plague Romney's every statement.

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To: Dale Baker who wrote (183687)2/25/2012 7:45:34 PM
From: Dale Baker
of 375013
Prolonged Race Forces Romney Campaign to Recalibrate

TROY, Mich. — Whether Mitt Romney wins or loses the Michigan and Arizona primaries on Tuesday, his advisers are warning donors and other supporters to prepare for a longer, more bruising and more expensive fight for the Republican presidential nomination that may not be settled until at least May.

That campaign trail reality is prompting a new round of intensified fund-raising by his financial team, which had hoped by this point to be collecting money for a general election match with President Obama. The campaign is increasingly trying to quell anxiety among Republican leaders, while intently focusing on the mechanics of accumulating delegates needed to secure the nomination.

Mr. Romney’s aides said they were confident that their sustained attacks portraying Rick Santorum as a Washington insider, and Mr. Santorum’s shaky debate performance in Arizona on Wednesday, had slowed their rival’s recent surge here in Michigan.

But Mr. Romney is by no means in the clear, they said, as he fights to avert a loss in the state where he was born and raised — and where less than three weeks ago he was expected to win handily, before Mr. Santorum’s surprise triumphs in Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri.

On Saturday, both candidates made appeals to conservatives who were here for a gathering of the group Americans for Prosperity. Mr. Santorum, who was received with booming applause, lit into Mr. Romney, calling him a politically pliable elitist whose Massachusetts health care plan and selective support for bailouts — for Wall Street’s, against the auto industry’s — disqualified him to be the party’s standard-bearer against Mr. Obama.

“What you have with me is ‘what you see is what you get,’ ” Mr. Santorum said, “as opposed to ‘what you see today may be something different than what you get tomorrow.’ ”

Mr. Santorum is likewise preparing to fight on for weeks or months, enticed by new party rules that award delegates in early primaries and caucuses based on each candidate’s share of the votes. “The race is going to go a long time,” he said as he left the stage, promising to “fight fire with fire.”

At the same event, Mr. Romney answered with sharp criticism of Mr. Santorum’s support for earmarks and for former Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, a defender of abortion rights, and his statement at Wednesday’s debate that at times he had to “take one for the team” by voting, out of party loyalty, for provisions he did not agree with.

“This taking one for the team, that’s business as usual in Washington,” Mr. Romney said. “We have to have principled, conservative leadership, and I have demonstrated that through my life.”

The party’s new delegate system is a major contributor to the prolonged nature of the contest, along with the advent of supportive and well-financed “super PACs” that have helped Mr. Romney’s competitors stay in the delegate hunt when their candidacies might otherwise have withered without enough cash.

Still, for many Republicans, the question is not just whether Mr. Romney will eventually capture the nomination, but at what cost.

There is a growing sense among party leaders that the primary fight has gone on long enough and that continued attacks by the candidates and their allies have steered the conversation away from the economy and could damage the party’s prospects in the fall. But several Republicans said a diversion to social issues threatened to turn off independent voters, who will be needed to form a winning coalition in the fall.

“The general election prospects for Republicans certainly would be better served if more focus was spent on Obama’s policies and the failures of those policies,” said Haley Barbour, a former governor of Mississippi and longtime party leader. “There’s still time for that, but would it improve our prospects greatly.”

The acknowledgment that the intraparty competition will most likely continue into the spring would seem to sweep aside the Romney campaign’s hope that it could string together a series of early victories sufficient to claim the nominee’s mantle — symbolically, at least — and begin focusing exclusively on Mr. Obama.

As it happened, Mr. Romney’s victories have come in fits and starts amid intensely negative attacks from all sides, leaving the party facing chatter about a contested convention in Tampa, Fla., if none of the candidates have won the 1,144 delegates needed.

In interviews, Mr. Romney’s aides and supporters dismissed that notion, and said their campaign was built to be ready to go the distance if necessary.

“We’re just going to have to work a little harder, and this team will do it,” said Mel Sembler, a member of Mr. Romney’s finance team, adding it would be “ready to supply whatever he needs to win this primary” campaign.

“We’re all on the telephone again,” he said, “and we’re getting it done. It’s just going to take longer.”

Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana said Saturday that the Republican race would almost certainly not be settled by May 8, the date of the primary in his state. He said that he did not believe any new candidates would enter the race — he unequivocally declared he would not — and that the burden was on the current field to make its case to voters.

“The only problem that I would worry about, and have all along,” Mr. Daniels said, “is our side might not offer a bold enough and specific enough and constructive enough — and I would say inclusive enough — alternative.”

The Republican presidential race was a central topic as governors gathered in Washington for their annual meeting. The intense negativity in the campaign alarmed many of them.

Gov. Paul R. LePage of Maine, a Republican, said the candidates had “injured themselves and injured the party by not following what Ronald Reagan said: Never speak badly of another Republican.” He said delegates to the Republican National Convention should “pick a fresh face,” someone not in the race now.

Reflecting the unsettled outlook, aides to both Mr. Romney and Mr. Santorum are playing down the importance of the Michigan and Arizona primaries. Those contests are preludes to the biggest day of voting in the Republican campaign on March 6, with 10 states and 437 delegates at play on Super Tuesday.

That terrain is far less hospitable to Mr. Romney than Michigan and Arizona, particularly a swath of Southern states, where polls suggest that he is trailing Mr. Santorum and Newt Gingrich. Mr. Gingrich is aggressively trying to revive his candidacy on Super Tuesday in Georgia, the state he represented in Congress, and a super PAC supporting Mr. Santorum is advertising across Ohio, another Super Tuesday state.

The better-financed super PAC that supports Mr. Romney, Restore Our Future, is already running advertisements attacking Mr. Santorum and Mr. Gingrich in Super Tuesday states. A senior official with the group said the intent was to “kill any comeback talk” in the event of major March 6 victories by either — or both — of them, particularly in the South, assuming Mr. Romney does well in Michigan and Arizona.

In Michigan, some Republican leaders expressed worries about the effect of an extended battle on the party’s prospects of winning the White House and suggested that the time had come for the party to rally around one candidate, however imperfect.

“I don’t have that spark behind any one candidate at the moment,” said Anna Mouser, the Republican chairwoman in Grand Traverse County. “But we do need to decide on our nominee. Some of these primaries are dragging out months and months and months, which leaves little time to raise money, unite and go out and defeat the Democrats.”

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To: Dale Baker who wrote (183650)2/25/2012 8:02:44 PM
From: Steve Lokness
of 375013
<<<<none of the Republican challengers gets anywhere close to 50% against Obama. Oops.>>>>

Obama is one Israeli bomb away from defeat. We are still in February and oil is shooting up - before the driving season. The economy which I give Obama credit for resurrecting, might be crushed for the reason Wharf Rat is constantly reminding us of - oil. I'm not predicting problems economically - way too many variables right now to do that. BUT, if some of those variables were to go against Obama, then we might get a Carter reelection result.

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