SI
SI
Advertise on SI

 Politics | Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction


Previous 10 | Next 10 
To: Oeconomicus who wrote (26773)1/16/2005 6:58:07 PM
From: geode00   of 90039
 
No silly, you questioned why I was talking about demographics when that is one of the major sticking points. It comes and goes, it's not a permanent situation.

These are obvious and very simple points. I do not understand why you fail to understand them. I gave you a ton of background for my position that SS is not headed for an iceberg and Bush is simply lying again.

Message 20955418

Did you bother to read it?

I didn't think so.

Stop listening to right wing propaganda radio and your mind may begin to function properly again. Then again, you may be too far gone for redemption.

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read

From: geode001/16/2005 7:02:21 PM
   of 90039
 
Putting Bush above the law. Since when is the US a monarchy?

Bush’s Kingmaker
Alberto Gonzales’ tortured arguments for reigning above the law
by David Corn

Royal lowness: Alberto Gonzales
(AP/Wideworld)

Does the fellow picked by George W. Bush to be the country’s top law enforcer believe the president is above the law?

Toward the end of the confirmation hearing of Alberto Gonzales, Bush’s choice to replace John Ashcroft as attorney general, a rather telling exchange occurred. Senator Russell Feingold, a Wisconsin Democrat, was asking Gonzales about the infamous August 1, 2002, "torture memo." The memorandum, prepared at Gonzales’ request by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, is best known for concluding that acts count as torture only if they are "extreme" and cause pain "equivalent in intensity" to the pain that accompanies "organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death."

The memo, revealed by the Washington Post last June, showed that the Bush administration was trying to sidestep a 1994 federal anti-torture law (which defines torture as an act "specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain") and to justify the use of "cruel, inhuman, or degrading" interrogation techniques that produce a certain level of pain.

But Feingold was not grilling Gonzales about the administration’s shifty definition of torture. Gonzales had gotten plenty of that from other Democrats, and he had ducked many of the difficult questions. Feingold was concerned with another section of the memo, one in which the administration claimed that during wartime a president could ignore laws that might affect his handling of the war. "In light of the President’s complete authority over the conduct of war," the memo said, ". . . we will not read a criminal statute as infringing on the President’s ultimate authority in these areas."

In simple terms: A wartime president is above the law. The immediate point concerned the use of torture, and the argument was that if the commander in chief orders torture, it cannot be illegal. But this finding had a much greater sweep. Suppose Congress banned the use of biological weapons or acts of genocide. Under this interpretation, the president could shoot Capitol Hill the finger and do as he pleases.

"The question here," Feingold asked Gonzales, "is, what is your view regarding the president’s constitutional authority to authorize violations of the criminal law . . . when acting as commander in chief? Does he have such authority?" For instance, Feingold wondered, could Bush "authorize warrantless searches of Americans’ homes and wiretaps of their conversations in violation of the criminal and foreign intelligence surveillance statutes of this country?" That is, could Bush act as a king?

Gonzales responded predictably. He noted that the "torture memo" had been "withdrawn" by the Justice Department and "rejected by the executive branch." True, the Bush administration had replaced this embarrassment with a new memo the previous week, just in time for Gonzales’ appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee. The new memo countermanded the previous definition of torture, but it did not address whether Bush could ignore laws when fighting a war. So Feingold pressed Gonzales further: Does Bush "at least in theory have the authority to authorize violations of the criminal law . . . simply because he’s commander in chief?"

Gonzales did not say no. "It is," he replied, "impossible to me . . . to answer that question."
Why was it impossible? Gonzales did not explain. He did note that "To the extent that there is a decision made to ignore a statute, I consider that a very significant decision, and one that I would personally be involved with." Feingold responded, "Well, that sounds to me like the president still remains above the law." Gonzales rejected that interpretation, commenting that "The president is not above the law."

But he had just said that the president could decide to ignore the law. Gonzales then added, "It is not the policy or the agenda of this president to authorize actions that would be in contravention of our criminal statutes." Boiled down, his twist-and-turn answer seemed to be this: Bush is free to violate laws when performing his commander-in-chief duties, Bush would consider such a move "significant" (no shit), and Bush has no intention to exploit this power on a regular basis.

How reassuring is that? It sounded as if Bush and Gonzales do believe he could be king for a day every now and then. By now, Feingold was running out of time, and this critical point was not explored much further. That’s what often happens with congressional hearings; the important stuff is shortchanged. Besides, the Democrats were not aiming to defeat the Gonzales nomination. Few Democratic senators were eager to vote against the first American of Latino origin to be picked for the A.G. slot — especially when it appeared inevitable that the GOP-dominated Senate would green-light the nomination. The goal was merely to rough him up, perhaps to signal that Gonzales would face a difficult time should Bush nominate him to fill a Supreme Court opening.

At the hearing, Gonzales dodged a serious charge: that he ordered the original "torture memo" drawn up to create a loophole that would allow CIA officers to use torture or cruel procedures and not fear criminal prosecution. According to the Washington Post, the drafting of the "torture memo" began after the CIA asked Gonzales how much pain and suffering intelligence officers operating abroad could inflict upon detainees without violating the anti-torture law.

Gonzales claimed he had "no specific recollection" of this. And his careful testimony suggested that even though the administration deep-sixed the "torture memo," it still is trying to provide the CIA legal cover for employing extreme and abusive interrogation techniques. While testifying, Gonzales was careful to distinguish between restrictions placed on military interrogators and those applied to intelligence-service interrogators, stating that the military — not the CIA — would treat detainees "humanely." Why the distinction?

When Senator Arlen Specter, the Republican chairman of the Judiciary Committee, asked whether the CIA has "broader latitude" than the military when conducting interrogations abroad, Gonzales did not directly reply, and he accepted Specter’s invitation to respond later in writing. A persuasive review of the two memos and Gonzales’ testimony written by Marty Lederman, a former Office of Legal Counsel attorney (who did not work on the memos), concludes that Gonzales has helped shape a policy under which the CIA "is not bound by any standard of ‘humane treatment’ " and "may lawfully engage in cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" when questioning al Qaeda suspects overseas. (Lederman’s full analysis was posted at www.balkin.blogspot.com.)

So while Bush and Gonzales, post–Abu Ghraib, now claim they oppose using torture or abuse, Gonzales — who would monarchize Bush for national-security purposes — plays cute with details and definitions, presumably to permit the continuing use of questionable interrogation techniques. This is quite unbecoming for a former judge slated to be the nation’s number-one lawman.

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read

To: longnshort who wrote (26774)1/16/2005 9:02:01 PM
From: fresc   of 90039
 
Don't take it so bad , he banned me a week a go for the same reason :)

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (1)

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (26775)1/16/2005 9:06:44 PM
From: Oeconomicus   of 90039
 
"I still see the transition costs as a problem. The only way to bridge that is with borrowing. I'd kind a like my government to stop borrowing."

I think I addressed that - you'll also have more money in the hands of investors, with no choice but to invest it.

"But even with a privatized system we'd still have to have the government guarantee the funds against fraud and fiscal mismanagement. What happens to the system if you have a stock market crash or Bond market bubble?"

A crash or bubble is not the same thing as fraud. Investors concerned about volatility and risk can invest in less volatile investments.

"And how does inflation or deflation and the rise and fall of interest rates affect a bond mutual fund based system?"

The same way it does under the current system - inflation is effectively a tax on wealth, deflation a tax on debt.

As for the rest, I don't much care for the idea of the government teaming up with private financial institutions to try to direct investment to "targeted projects". The market does a better job of allocating resources than any central planners ever could.

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (1)

To: geode00 who wrote (26770)1/16/2005 9:10:37 PM
From: Lazarus_Long   of 90039
 
Message 20955473
MNobody said nobody should bear any liability for anything, Commissar. It's only Commissars that think that and then they want it only to apply to Commissars.

DO you think Merck should be put out of business? Hell, let's put ALL drug companies but one out of business; they all make mistakes. Then see what happens.

Better yet, kill 'em all. Then YOU or your kid can die of a curable bacterial infection.

Saying tort reform is needed ISN'T the same as saying a drug company and its zecks ALWAYS walk away scot free regardless of what they have done. Criminal penalties and good jail time for the zecks that decide to keep known dangerous products on the market? Sounds good to me.

But remember, you want to keep the baby while getting rid of the bathwater.

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (1)

To: fresc who wrote (26772)1/16/2005 9:15:18 PM
From: Lazarus_Long   of 90039
 
What ARE the product liability laws like in Canada? If a Canadian drug company (are there any?) made a bad drug, could it be sued into the ground? Could each plaintiff go after essentially unlimited damages? Yes? No?

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (2)

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (26781)1/16/2005 9:28:35 PM
From: geode00   of 90039
 
The Bush administration, and those who support it, are acting increasingly like the Soviet Union and other autocratic states. Even the Republicans are starting to fight back regarding states rights.

Merck does not have to be put out of business although, as a 'capitalist', you should be happy to see companies live and die by market forces. Civil Courts are part of the market. Individuals and organizations spend their own money (whether from the client or from the law firms) to battle it out. This is a form of capitalism that we recognize in this country. Why would you want to stomp on it? Why would you want to kill it?

Regulate it, YES. Kill it for corporate profits, NO.

Bush doesn't want tort reform in order to save money. Bush wants it in order to give more profits to Big Phrma. Yep, these are the most profitable companies in the US, Bush gave them a slug of guaranteed profits in the Medicare Bill and now Bush wants to give them even MORE?

The Pig Trough is OVERFLOWING.

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (1)

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (26782)1/16/2005 9:31:28 PM
From: Lady Lurksalot   of 90039
 
Laz, In the good old US of A, most of the drug (and other) companies that have faced catastrophic, financially crippling judgments file for bankruptcy and never pay a fraction of the claims. Remember AH Robbins? Corning? Others? - Holly

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (1)

To: Oeconomicus who wrote (26780)1/16/2005 9:39:15 PM
From: Orcastraiter   of 90039
 
I think I addressed that - you'll also have more money in the hands of investors, with no choice but to invest it.


I don't see how having more money to invest helps cover the debt we incur to cover the transition.

A crash or bubble is not the same thing as fraud. Investors concerned about volatility and risk can invest in less volatile investments.

No it's not necessarily fraud, but it could be part fraud. But a crash of the market could put those that did not invest in low risk instruments in a bad way. You know there will be many of those folks. Some folks are gamblers. But aside from folks making bad decisions a market crash could precipitate failures of other institutions. Same with a bond market bubble. Then of course it would once again be the government's job to step in and clean up the mess.

As for the rest, I don't much care for the idea of the government teaming up with private financial institutions to try to direct investment to "targeted projects". The market does a better job of allocating resources than any central planners ever could.


Ok then, let them loan money to anyone with a good project and the collateral to secure the loan. I guess in this way the government would be competing with banks. But the government should be able to make capital work for the people just as any business can.

Orca

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (1)

To: Lady Lurksalot who wrote (26784)1/16/2005 9:49:50 PM
From: Lazarus_Long   of 90039
 
Puts them out of business, right? And the bankruptcy court uses part of the proceeds from the sale of the company or its assets to pay those claims, st least partially. And it increases the monopoly of the remaining companies.

Correct?

Share Recommend | Keep | Reply | Mark as Last Read | Read Replies (1)
Previous 10 | Next 10 

Copyright © 1995-2013 Knight Sac Media. All rights reserved.