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To: mindmeld who wrote (109616)2/16/2011 6:25:36 PM
From: FreedomForAll1 Recommendation   of 109988
 
The president proposes, the con-gress disposes.
Oprama could at least propose a balanced budget.
But a balanced budget would not agree with his agenda of increasing central government and power, nor would it provide the corporate welfare required to continue re-election support by his puppeteers.
You are right, the con-gress' agenda is similar so they won't create a balanced budget either.
As for the treasury budget, its run by Goldman Sachs, let them pay the interest payments. 8^)
Now that I think of it, the fed will soon be holding all the treasury paper, won't they?

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To: mindmeld who wrote (109612)2/16/2011 7:00:42 PM
From: Jack Be Quick   of 109988
 
>>NO ONE IS TACKLING THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!<<

Well, here's a state government - Wisconsin - that seems to be tackling an elephant:

huffingtonpost.com 

"Badger continued, 'none of the unions involved in this have said that they would not be willing to make sacrifices. They have said that they are, and they will.'"

Uh, huh.

Should be interesting to watch these unfold.

Cheers.

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To: Jack Be Quick who wrote (109622)2/16/2011 7:10:09 PM
From: FreedomForAll1 Recommendation   of 109988
 
Some states are being creative with banking, too.
truth-out.org 

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To: clochard who wrote (109619)2/16/2011 10:06:59 PM
From: mindmeld   of 109988
 
It's the Grapes of Wrath all over again.

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To: FreedomForAll who wrote (109621)2/16/2011 10:13:39 PM
From: mindmeld12 Recommendations   of 109988
 
You know, I was talking to my dad yesterday and I told him that we're going to have to cut social security and everything else to get our fiscal house in order in this country. You see, at heart, I'm one hell of a fiscal conservative. I make most GOP members look like lefties when it comes to money and budgets. Anyway, my dad replied, "Son, I earned that money. Why would you take that away from me?"

That made me think a bit more, and damned if he isn't right. You see, my dad paid into that shitty system far more than he'll ever get out of it. So to cut his benefits doesn't make any sense. What's more is that when we really think about who ran up the $14 trillion in debt and who profited from most of it, well, I can tell you it wasn't my dad nor people like him.

The real villains are the Goldman Sach's of this world who literally created the financial mess we're in and looted our Treasury and ARE STILL DOING IT!

So you tell me. In what world is it justice to cut the benefits and budgetary expenditures on the 99% of Americans, when the shithole of a mess that we're now trying to pay for was caused by the top 1%, the richest Americans in this country?

Hell, yes. Make them pay for it. If I was King for a day, we'd have the mother of all progressive tax structures put in place. The top 1% would see tax rates we haven't seen in 40 years.

Now go ahead and flame me thread. I think I've had just about enough of the banksters and their prostitutes like Bernanke raping this country repeatedly and then forcing the 99% to pay for it all.

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To: mindmeld who wrote (109625)2/16/2011 10:48:27 PM
From: ggersh   of 109988
 
Well said! SS is something we pay for, fcukin
banksters want it all!

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To: mindmeld who wrote (109625)2/16/2011 11:09:38 PM
From: FreedomForAll1 Recommendation   of 109988
 
In some ways I agree, in others I don't. I saw an article last week that touted the richest women in America. THe top five are each over a billion (if memory serves.) The thing I am certain of is that all five inherited their wealth. Again, I am conflicted by this. Part of me says tax it, while another part says I should examine the details first. The details show that their fathers (or husband's father) were extremely productive self made men. They created the wealth through intelligence and hard work. None of them did it because of political advantage or government granted monopoly. They made products or offered services that people wanted and voluntarily purchased. They weren't bankers or wall streeters or politicians who only made money because they had rigged the game to cheat others. Were they perfect? Of course not, but they used their efforts and talents to create prosperity for many others.

High taxes have the unintended consequence of preventing productive people from creating a better world for (and employing) many people who would be otherwise less productive, less happy, and whose families would suffer as a result.

So tax the bankers and financiers 99% of income over the average income of the median worker. But for all the productive, give all of them incentives to produce and create.
In the case of the descendents of the great producers, taxing away all their inheritance could have the effect of destroying the businesses that generated the wealth and the jobs. Those businesses should not be destroyed just to tax their owners.

The problem is not that Americans aren't taxed enough. It's that the "public servants" spend too much. That is true in every country (AFAIK.) Today I saw a story online about how the NZ govt was replacing all their executive luxury BMW cars after 3 years use with new BMW luxury cars. According to recent studies NZ has the least corrupt government in the world. But the government's explanation was that it was the best deal. The article then explained that govt paid just under $100,000 each and would get about $55,000 at auction for the 3 year old cars, a loss of $45,000 per car, and the government is repeating the same deal (at a higher purchase price) and claims this is the best deal. I bet its a good deal for BMW, and helps their employment, but none is done in NZ. Somehow I doubt many New Zealanders will agree this is the best deal, since most of them buy used cars imported from Japan that are 5 or more years old, and then drive them for 10 years or more.

This problem is widespread in every country (that I am aware of.) Elected national officials believe they deserve better than their people, and the people have to pay for it because the people have no voice in who gets elected. The system is broken and giving government more money will not fix it.

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To: FreedomForAll who wrote (109627)2/17/2011 12:22:19 AM
From: pogohere2 Recommendations   of 109988
 
"In the case of the descendents of the great producers, taxing away all their inheritance could have the effect of destroying the businesses that generated the wealth and the jobs. Those businesses should not be destroyed just to tax their owners."

Not very likely, I'd say. Probably the businesses would be sold whole or in parts, leaving their capacity to generate jobs and valuable innovations available to society at large, but in different hands. I believe that is Schumpeter's creative destruction at work: "From the 1950s onwards, the term "creative destruction" has become more readily identified with the Austrian-American economist Joseph Schumpeter,[4] who adapted and popularized it as a theory of economic innovation and progress." en.wikipedia.org 

What needs to be addressed is the nature of the "social contract." What are the trade-offs to be made that promotes innovation and permits merit to be rewarded without creating such a disparity between those with wealth and those without that we tear ourselves apart? I believe the least deserving of sympathy are those who inherited all their wealth.

"The problem is not that Americans aren't taxed enough. It's that the "public servants" spend too much." I believe this is a straw man that is not terribly relevant. The legalized capture of the legislative and regulatory process by those with the means to do so has distorted the whole paradigm of representative government. Institutions that failed and should have been shut down, mostly banks, have captured their regulators and rewritten the regulations to legalize what used to be blatant criminal fraud. In a bizarre form of Stockholm syndrome ". . .wherein hostages express adulation and have positive feelings towards their captors that appear irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, essentially mistaking a lack of abuse from their captors as an act of kindness," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) our legislators have rewarded their "captors" with obscene amounts public funds.

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From: FreedomForAll2/17/2011 12:32:48 AM
   of 109988
 
What Is Wrong With The U.S. Economy? Here Are 10 Economic Charts That Will Blow Your Mind

zerohedge.com 

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To: FreedomForAll who wrote (109629)2/17/2011 5:53:31 AM
From: Gemlaoshi1 Recommendation   of 109988
 
Most of us have a bit of a time wrapping our brains around exponential growth of debt. That's why the Fed is now locked into a zero interest rate, multiple QE environment until it all blows up.

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