The Epic American Credit and Bond Bubble Laboratory

To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (109053)	8/6/2010 1:55:09 AM
From: benwood	of 109993

The downside of too much road infrastructure is beginning to be felt. My neighbor in Seattle works for the light company, and she said their staff has been reduced and now they have rolling blackouts from various problems occurring this summer. Oh joy... not sure if they are cutting due to escalating pension costs or lower commercial sales, or ??? But elsewhere, just wait until the sewer and water lines need to be repaired. The high pressure water is near the end of it's 70? year life, and when much of it went in, the roads were gravel. They'll need to bust up the concrete and later repave. Should be quite a job, and cost an enormous sum. My bro-in-law's town needs a new sewer (Vantage, small town on Columbia River) and the estimate is $4000 per person, or $24,000 for his family's share. Not sure what the town will do. And that's just one system...

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To: Jack Be Quick who wrote (109054)	8/6/2010 2:02:35 AM
From: benwood	1 Recommendation of 109993

I have two thoughts about this legally or morally bit: If it is "moral" for the steel workers to have reality bite them in the ass, so be it for all public employees, too. And... what kind of terrible (horrendous) leadership did we elect (or get appointed) to create this mess? Appalling, really. Just five years ago, this train wreck was in process, but nary a word was said. Disaster capitalism in another form. Another thought: the 'fair' argument is skewed. Most of those employees may not have paid much percentage into their own retirement, but for many (most?) esp. in the 60s through 90s, they were paid less than in the private sector, so when considering 'fair' push the money they didn't get paid into the equation, money which somebody with higher pay could have invested.

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To: GST who wrote (109055)	8/6/2010 2:12:38 AM
From: benwood	1 Recommendation of 109993

I agree about deferred compensation (except if the entire USA goes BK in which Houston we have a problem) because that is money that was earned but deferred and therefore is cleared owed to the employee. However, in the public pension system, it's got to be a game of minimizing the damage -- lower payouts, higher crime, dismantled educational system, closed parks, eliminated fire departments, terminated 9-1-1 coverage, closed bridges, decaying water, sewer, power systems, etc. etc. Choose the pain, because there will be plenty. The moral argument was needed years ago in how the pensions were structured. It was probably used, too, but shouted down by those who knew how to shift the problem into the future. Well, we're HERE and it ain't pretty.

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To: prometheus1976 who wrote (109056)	8/6/2010 2:18:23 AM
From: benwood	2 Recommendations of 109993

"The general public will not suffer the loss of current public services to pay non-productive retirees.." It the services, schools, safety, etc. decline, then those with means will move away. Same as they do now; it will simply be a whole new cast of characters. Those who thought they could double property taxes to maintain their dysfunctional payout structure will quickly learn that people will just leave, taking the tax base with them. They will quickly realize that it will be impossible to continue without confronting the problem at that point. Assuming the "leaders" have not moved away, too.

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