Politics | WAR on Terror. Will it engulf the Entire Middle East?


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To: SARMAN who wrote (25898)5/15/2011 9:45:06 AM
From: Monkey Man   of 29892
 
You do not subscribe to reality

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From: Monkey Man5/15/2011 9:45:17 AM
   of 29892
 
Mob attacks Christian protesters on strike in Egypt, more than 60 injured
Sarah El DeeB
Cairo, Egypt— The Associated Press
Published Sunday, May. 15, 2011 12:35AM EDT
Last updated Sunday, May. 15, 2011 12:36AM EDT
15 comments Email Print Decrease text size Increase text size An angry mob attacked a group of mainly Christian protesters demanding drastic measures to heal religious tension amid a spike in violence, leaving 65 people injured, officials said Sunday.

The Christian protesters have been holding their sit-in outside the state television building in Cairo for nearly a week following deadly Christian-Muslim clashes that left a church burned and 15 people dead.

More related to this storyEgypt graft agency rules to detain Mubarak, wife
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Hundreds gather in Cairo to protest Muslim-Christian clashes
More than 100 people rushed into the sit-in area, lobbing rocks and fire bombs from an overpass and charging toward the few hundred protesters sleeping in the area. Vehicles were set on fire and fires burned in the middle of the street.

Police and army troops fired in the air to disperse the crowd, and a tree was set on fire under the overpass.

The security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media, said the attackers had returned to avenge an earlier scuffle with the protesters who prevented a motorist from going through the area. A fight ensued, and the motorists fired blank rounds. The protesters chased the motorist and beat him badly.

Marc Mino, a protest organizer, told state TV the motorists had provoked the fight after refusing to be searched before entering the protest area, then provoking the protesters.

Medics said 65 were injured in Sunday's melee, two in critical condition. The security official said nearly 50 of the riot instigators were arrested.

A witness, Alfred Raouf, said armoured vehicles later blocked traffic and pedestrians from going down from the bridge toward the protest area. The number of protesters at the sit-in shrunk, but those remaining insisted the strike would continue as their area was cordoned off by the security, Mr. Raouf said.

Religious clashes and a rising wave of crime have proved to be a major challenge for Egypt's military rulers in the days following the 18-day uprising that led to the Feb. 11 ouster of ex-President Hosni Mubarak.

Following the religious violence, the military vowed to respond firmly to instigators of violence and promised to respond to a number of the Christian demands, including reopening nearly 50 churches. But no trial date has been set for those responsible for the church burning or the violence last week.

Just hours before the Cairo violence, several suspected Islamic extremists bombed the tomb of a Muslim saint in the northern Sinai town of Sheik Zweid, said a security official, also declining to be identified because he wasn't authorized to release the information. The official said the eight or nine attackers fled the area. Muslim radicals have blown up at least five other Muslim shrines, because they believe the veneration of saints as a violation of Islam.

Meanwhile, doctors said Egypt's ex-first lady Suzanne Mubarak was in stable condition after treatment for a “panic attack” and has effectively been put under arrest in the hospital in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh pending further investigation of corruption allegations, officials said Saturday.

Ms. Mubarak fainted and suffered chest pains following a three-hour interrogation Friday which ended with a decision to detain her for 15 days as prosecutors looked at the sources of her wealth. She has been accused of taking advantage of his position for personal gain.

Health Minister Ashraf Hatem said the 70-year old Ms. Mubarak was in stable condition Saturday after a 24-hour monitoring period in the intensive care unit of the hospital in the Red Sea town of Sharm el-Sheikh. She is in the custody of the police, Mr. Hatem said, according to Egypt's state news agency MENA.

Later, a second team recommended she remain under observation for an additional 48 hours, according to the hospital's director, Dr. Mohammed Fatahallah. He said the team determined that Ms. Mubarak still has high blood pressure and suffers from chest pains, and an angioplasty may be necessary. He was speaking to The Associated Press.

The continuing treatment makes it unlikely she will be transferred quickly to a Cairo women's prison facility, where she had been expected to be moved.

Earlier, a hospital official had told The Associated Press that Ms. Mubarak on Friday “suffered from a sudden panic attack after hearing that she will be sent to prison.” The hospital official spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not allowed to release the information before further tests were conducted.

Ms. Mubarak's 83-year-old husband also is being treated in the Sharm el-Sheikh hospital, for a heart condition.

The former president had been questioned several times about allegations that he illegally amassed vast wealth, but Ms. Mubarak was interrogated on Thursday for the first time on corruption charges.

The Mubaraks and other members of the former regime have been the subject of legal efforts to bring them to trial since the ex-president was forced to resign Feb. 11.

The process has been complicated by slow procedures and – in the Mubaraks' case – by health issues. Many in the protest movement have been critical of the current military rulers for being slow in pursuing corrupt officials, although many former regime members have been jailed.

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To: Monkey Man who wrote (25899)5/15/2011 10:28:27 AM
From: SARMAN   of 29892
 
What reality do you talk about? The only killing is happening is to Muslims. I guess demonizing them makes it easier to kill them.

Can you state any statistic about how many Jews killed by Muslims, and How many Muslims are killed by Jews and for the Jews? Just for comparison sake. Keep in mind the rapture is on the 21st of this moth, don't miss it. Only pure Christians will be saved. Oops, you just wiped off all the Jews. We can see through your BS.

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From: hdl5/15/2011 12:30:09 PM
   of 29892
 
world will agree with sarman - and say israel is killing innocent protesters, fewer jews are killed by arabs than arabs are killed by jews - and don't do anything to stop governments in syria and iran from killing - but stop israel from defending itself. solution of world - have 6 iilion jews killed and 6 million arabs killed - that is fair and balanced.

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To: SARMAN who wrote (25901)5/15/2011 5:09:27 PM
From: Monkey Man   of 29892
 
complete fool

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From: Monkey Man5/15/2011 5:11:34 PM
   of 29892
 
London 'sleeper cell' told to carry out wave of terror attacks by Bin Laden before his death

By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 5:36 PM on 15th May 2011

Terror: Bin Laden ordered the 'London Boys' to carry out a wave of attacks before he died

A group of terrorists who trained in Somalia returned to Britain to carry out a wave of attacks which were demanded by Osama Bin Laden before his death.

The gang, dubbed the 'London Boys', were taught by a top Al-Qaeda explosives expert in the war-torn country and include Reza Afsharzadegan, a former IT student from Ladbroke Grove, West London.

He is married with a child and moved to Britain as a young boy from Iran.

Leaked documents reveal how the 'sleeper operatives' were trained by an Al-Qaeda official who is wanted by the FBI with a £3m ($5m) reward for his capture.

The IT student and three other men, Mohammed Ezzouek, Hamza Chentouf and Shahajan Janjua, were rescued from Somalia in 2007 after they were imprisoned while trying to flee after the US ordered air strikes on Islamists who took over Mogadishu.

The Foreign Office spent tens of thousands of pounds on a jet to bring them home but the latest revelations will put them under the spotlight once again and raise questions about why they weren't put under further scrutiny.

The news will also send a wave of terror across Britain as security is heightened after the recent death of Bin Laden and ahead of a state visit by U.S president Barack Obama.

Information obtained from Guantanamo Bay detainees also reveals that Al-Qaeda's African leader, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, also known as Harun Fazal, trained a number of Britons at a terror factory in Mogadishu.

He is wanted in the U.S for carrying out the attacks on the American embassies in
Wanted: Fazul Abdullah Mohammed helped train the group of terrorists known as the 'London Boys'


Wanted: Fazul Abdullah Mohammed helped train the group of terrorists known as the 'London Boys'

Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 in which 258 people were killed.

Mohammed is a close associate of Kenyan Abdul Malik, who attempted to gun down an Israeli plane and helping to bomb a hotel in Mombasa.

Malik was arrested in February 2007 on the same day the four British men were flown to safety.

The report said: 'In the fall of 2006, a group known as the "London Boys" attended Harun Fazul's traning in Mogadishu.

'Reza Afsharzadegan, aka Adam, one of the "boys" was reported to be a close associate of detainee who kept in phone contact.'

A family member of Afsharzadegan's confirmed to the Sunday Times that he had tried to visit Yemen twice, a place closely associated with radicalism.

Chentouf, 24, and Ezzouek both originally hail from Morocco.

Ezzouek said he did not want to comment on the revelations but his sister said Scotland Yard had been asking neighbours about her brother.

Files leaked by WikiLeaks also show how Bin Laden sent messages from his hideout in Abbottabad, Pakistan, to other Al-Qaeda members in Somalia and told them to carry out more attacks on the West.

Read more: dailymail.co.uk 

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To: hdl who wrote (25902)5/16/2011 1:40:33 PM
From: SARMAN   of 29892
 
hdl, not only the world agrees with me but also Jews too. Your logic is flawed. Before the creation of Israel, people live there. You can't dismiss that fact. And to be fair, you should have phrases "have 6 iilion jews killed and 6 million arabs killed - that is fair and balanced." to "have 6 milion Israelis killed and 6 million Arabs killed - that is fair and balanced."

You have also understand that the mistreatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is not helping the situation either. If insist on associating the world's Jews with Israel's crimes, thus, the world's Jews must bear responsibility, which is not the case. You need to differentiate between Zionists and Jews. I recall when Israel was bombing Gaza, Jews of the world were protesting and occupying Israeli embassies all over the world. They were shouting "Not in the Jews' name"

Here is something that you might find interesting.

'Zionists give false name to Judaism'
Israel commits atrocities on the Palestinian people, and manipulates other countries in order to establish nationalism -- an ideology forbidden by true Judaism, says a Rabbi.


In an interview with Press TV, Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss of the Neturei Karta International group says that Israel should be dismantled because it does not represent the true Jewish people.

Press TV: The Nakba and the 63rd anniversary of that, what does that mean to the Jewish people when you hear about the Nakba, in general?

Weiss: With the help of the Almighty, should bestow upon me His Wisdom and should be able to convey His Truth...Our rabbis always said that we do not want to hurt the feelings or belittle the terrible Nakba, the catastrophe what is to the Palestinian people.

But to us Jews it is even a greater Nakba being that Zionism and its development into the state of Israel is a transformation of Judaism the religion, subservience to the Almighty; what it meant for all the thousands of years, this covenant that we made with God, is a simple transformation from that into a base materialism, a nationalistic goal.

It was created a mere hundred odd years ago by people who detested the religion, Theodor Herzl and so forth. And what they're doing is they're uprooting the soul of the Jewish people from around the world.

It says in our Torah if you make one sin it is worse than if you kill him. And the Jews gave their lives for the religion.

And by the Second World War, by Hitler, many Jews, when they had the option of giving up their children to convents and things to be saved, said they'd rather prefer they die as a Jew than live their whole lives not knowing and transgressing the laws of the Torah.

I'd just like to explain, with God's help, the concept of Zionism - which is nationalism - routed in blasphemy, “God doesn't protect us; we have to have our own protection.”

But God foresaw these types of thinking and, therefore, put us under oath that we are from King Solomon, that we are not to rebel against any nation, we should be loyal citizens in every country we are residing in, we should not go back in masse to the Holy Land, and we should not make any attempt to end exile.

Therefore, the concept of a Jewish sovereignty is antithetical to Judaism, forbidden. Even one inch of Jewish sovereignty, even if it were to be uninhabited, it would be forbidden for Jews. Therefore, for thousands of years Jews were forbidden to make their homeland.

Press TV: So you're basically saying that it is against Judaism for Jewish people to have their own state?

Weiss: That, but it is much more important to remember that it is just one facet of the picture because they created their own state to gain legitimacy. They made it this national home in Palestine and claimed it in the name of Judaism. They used the Jewish name to claim that it's some Godly issue. They hijacked and kidnapped the name “Jews.”

And now, they've come upon a technical problem for the Palestinian people living there; they've banished them from their homes. All the atrocities and all the 60 years of this terrible Nakba, to us our hearts are rent, Jews in Palestine and around the world who are true to the Torah, our hearts are rent by the suffering of the people; ongoing, everyday a new tragedy.

Today, what we've witnessed, our hearts are rent and we mourn. To us it's a double Nakba, a triple Nakba, and we are frustrated because it's being done in our name. There are no words to describe this Nakba. We want, and we pray for a speedy and total peaceful dismantlement of the state, this impediment to peace.

Press TV: I think it's very significant in that the mass media, the main media - the Western media - portrays all the time that there's this automatic clash between Muslims and Jews, or Muslims and Christians; whereas, there are never any problems between the Muslims and the Jews but that this has come up since the creation of Zionism.

Weiss: We are all encompassed in this tragedy, this Nakba because the Jewish community, the Jewish people have been living in Muslim and Arab lands for hundreds of years prior to human rights groups trying to protect us.

We've had this distinct difference in how to serve God, and we've flourished as a very religious community amongst very religious Muslim and Christian communities - we're talking about in the Arab and Muslim lands!

We were not massacred. I'm not saying there were never any bumps in the road but we were able to exist and flourish. In fact, according to the Jewish religion, we are required to show our gratitude for a safe haven, for a home provided for us, especially by the Spanish inquisition and the Crusades; and by the Second World War, Jews ran to Turkey and other Muslim countries.

All the sudden, since the Zionists and this political movement came along, we say it is totally void of religion, they put on the façade of religion in order to gain legitimacy, in order to glean sympathy, and they vilify the victim, the Palestinian people. And they say [the Palestinians] are anti-Semitic.

They use the term anti-Semitic, that they hate the Jews. How repugnant when they were our hosts, gracious hosts and safe haven; they abuse it as if it's a religious conflict. People are alive today who attest to the fact that we've coexisted, we've baby-sat with our precious children and we've coexisted.

It's really crucial to know that the chief Rabbi of Palestine, and all the heads of the communities, pleaded with the United Nations in 1947, prior to the state's existence, (Rabbi reads from a piece of paper) that “we furthermore wish to express our definite opposition to a Jewish state in any part of Palestine.” This was the chief Rabbi of the Jewish community saying we don't want this so-called Jewish state.

But they've used this façade of religion vilifying the victim.

We must say that the Jewish people do have a yearning to return to the Holy Land as a people. The concept of Judaism is we believe that one day God will make a metaphysical and miraculous change for all humanity to embrace and go up and serve God. Not, God forbid, stealing the land, driving people from the land, when we all together serve God.

What Zionism has done is taken the victim, vilified them, and created in the world a perception of these good people - our neighbors, our friends - as, unfortunately, animals or whatever you call it.

Press TV: You've brought up something interesting when you were talking about Israel. For a lot of Westerners, if you were to ask them about Israel, usually they would say that it's a Jewish state. What would you say to that?

Weiss: We would say that it's the State of the Satan. There's no other terminology because it's illogical to understand how a political entity which was built on the heads and shoulders of three communities - the Muslims, Christians and Jewish communities who were living there for hundreds of years - didn't want that it should be implemented on their backs. It was created totally selfishly because the majority of people were Muslim.

It's an ongoing destruction of people, and ongoing river of blood of Muslim, Christian and Jewish, mind you.

We'd like to show you that the Jewish people that stand in solidarity, the Jewish community that lives there in Palestine that were living there for hundreds of years, stand up unarmed and demonstrate and they get brutally beaten. We have hundreds of thousands that stand up.

Press TV: This is in Palestine?

Weiss: We have, around the world, a Jewish community that's been practicing their religion for hundreds of years. We have here in Washington D.C., this religious community (Rabbi presents a pamphlet with gory pictures), invariably, the more religious the more anti-Zionist. You go to Jerusalem and you'll find the same thing in the very large communities.

Still in all, they have been successful in telling the world that we represent Judaism; and the people who don't want us is not because they are suffering, legitimately, but they are suffering because they're anti-Semitic and anti-Jewish; these are self-hating Jews.

They ridicule these large respectful communities that are giving their lives to Judaism and to serve God. Like I say, it is the works of Satan; it is not a Jewish state.

Unfortunately, within the generations you will find that the USSR could take millions and millions of people and liquidate them, and refuse to allow religion. They've existed in the United Nations. In South Africa, apartheid could exist and be considered a legitimate state and be respectable and people did business.

Press TV: So, you're putting them on the same level?

Weiss: We're saying it's a lot worse. They're uprooting the souls of Jews. The Palestinian people are suffering daily; the emotional, physical, psychological scars for life. It's millions and millions of people.

The Semites, of course, are being used against the Jewish people and we do believe that the Jewish people are from Semites, but that's abused; the concept of anti-Semitism.

We hope for a speedy and peaceful dismantlement of the state of Israel - the impediment of peace - so we can all serve God.
presstv.ir 

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To: Monkey Man who wrote (25903)5/16/2011 1:43:33 PM
From: SARMAN   of 29892
 
Then discuss. Am I right? Why? Am I wrong? Why? I trust you have the ability to hold a discussion. Or am I wrong, you are only capable of copying and pasting hate propaganda?

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To: SARMAN who wrote (25906)5/16/2011 9:37:54 PM
From: Scoobah   of 29892
 
Sarman, take it easy, no one has to become off balanced, and I am not accusing you of that, but,

there were people living in Palestine at the turn of the century, most of them Jews,

in fact, they called themselves Palestinians too.

the Jews were entitled to their ancestral homeland, same as everyone else, including whatever foreigners were there before; however, anyone who declared war against the new state, doesnt get their home back; without another war;

which is coming, via Egypt and Syria and Hezbollah; but,

I dont anticipate Iran doing anything but watching and supplying, via Russia

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To: Scoobah who wrote (25907)5/16/2011 11:20:15 PM
From: SARMAN   of 29892
 
there were people living in Palestine at the turn of the century, most of them Jews

in fact, they called themselves Palestinians too.

I know, not only in Palestine but also through out the Arab world. Arab Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together in peace, they took care of each others' children. However, the number of Jews was substantial but not the majority. No body cared they lived in harmony, they shared the same culture. Just look at the attire of the Jewish worshipers in Lebanon.


the Jews were entitled to their ancestral homeland, same as everyone else, including whatever foreigners were there before
If I to agree with you, there is a big problem with that argument. Jews came from Egypt. Shouldn't that be their ancestral land? Also, Saphardic Jews are pure, Ashkanazi Jews are not. However, we are not going to split hairs. The state of Israel was created and there is no going back. The question remains, why the mistreatment of the Palestinians? Not only the mistreatment of the Palestinians but also the mistreatment of the Arab Jews. Arab Jews were considered as a second class citizens by the European Jews (Ashkanazis).

however, anyone who declared war against the new state, doesnt get their home back; without another war;
It was not the Palestinians that waged war on Israel, it was the Arab neighboring states that did. Yet the Palestinians that are paying the price. As for the other war that you talk about, I doubt it. I said it before and I will say it now, if Israel doesn't resolve the Palestinian issue very soon, there will be no Jews left in the Jewish state. No, not by war, by numbers. 80% of the Jews in Israel carry dual citizenship. Jews around the world feel safer outside Israel. They have no problem integrating in western societies and there are laws that protect them. Thus,when the Israeli government hell bent on poking its neighbors and not settling the Palestinian issue, Jews are simply leaving Israel. That is creating a major problem for the Zionist dream. The only Jews that will remain behind are the Orthodox Jews, which also creating a problem for the Israeli government.

which is coming, via Egypt and Syria and Hezbollah; but,
Like I said I doubt it. However, what is coming is democracy in the Arab world. At that point, the Israeli government will be force politically to settle the Palestinian issue fairly.
There are many high profile Israelis that are demanding the settlement of the Palestinian issue for the sake of Israel's security and existence.

I dont anticipate Iran doing anything but watching and supplying, via Russia
What is the solution Scoobah? IMO, if Israel cares about its security, it should settle the Palestinian issue. Two state solution is a start. Jerusalem will be neutral land controlled by an international body. Right of return can be solve by compensation. Illegal settlements land can be fairly exchanged. To me if the Israeli government was serious about peace, the Israeli government would negotiate with the Palestinians in good faith.

All bloodshed would be avoided. I blame our presidents for not having the balls to tell Israel to negotiate with good faith or lose your aid. AIPAC scares the hell out of our elected politicians. Anyway, this topic is for future discussion. I am interested to hear your views for a solution.

A note, I know you think Hizbo, Hamas, Syria, Iranians, Arabs, etc hate Jews, far from it. It is not Jews nor Judaism they hate it is Zionism. Zionism that hides behind Judaism.

Here is something I found while browsing. I found it very interesting. The Synagogue in the picture above is being rebuild after the Israelis bombed it.

samtphoto.blogspot.com 

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