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 Strategies & Market Trends | The Financial Collapse of 2001 and Beyond


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To: big-papi who wrote (88480)3/27/2012 2:35:54 PM
From: Maurice Winn1 Recommendation   of 101279
 
You are right: < That leaves us with inflating the system, which in my estimation seems to be the most logical path we are taking given the Fed's monetary and fiscal policies. > I learned from the late 1960s that the law of governments is to rob people of their money by way of inflation. That lesson had sunk in solidly by the end of the 1970s. It's the fundamental fact of financial relativity theory. You can bet the farm on it.

Mqurice

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To: dvdw© who wrote (88377)3/27/2012 2:39:41 PM
From: The Jack of Hearts   of 101279
 
US has a Secretary of Fossil energy LOL...

I never knew that.. just heard it on BNN

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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (88494)3/27/2012 2:40:53 PM
From: bart133 Recommendations   of 101279
 
I repeat the 'too inconvenient' - who owns you?

You ought to get that envy of me taken care of. *yawn*

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To: Metacomet who wrote (88481)3/27/2012 2:47:35 PM
From: Maurice Winn3 Recommendations   of 101279
 
Having had considerable experience of both, my opinion is that you are wrong: < There is however a much higher percentage of evil doers and outright assholes in the 1% > You are right though that it would be easy get a quorum of outright nasty types.

One of the fundamental facts about money is that if you don't have it, you can't lose it, so you don't have to worry too much about doing so and one's behaviour is not circumscribed by the risk of losing it. People with loads carry the constant worry of protecting it, which means not doing things which would put it at risk. That means maintaining higher standards of behaviour than might otherwise be the case. Unfortunately, the money itself enables some bad behaviour such as lording it over waitresses and generally behaving in a less than pleasant way.

From my own experience, people seem to just carry on from when they were about 12 with their basic personality and having or not having money doesn't change that much at all. If they are decent people when twelve, they are likely to remain so over the decades.

Your belief that the proportion is higher in the wealthy is, I believe, based on envy rather than facts.
You see some undesirable individuals, and attribute their character to the group because of your antipathy to the group. That's called racism in another context. You have to watch out for racism. You can find it sneaking up on you in all sorts of ways.

Mqurice

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To: bart13 who wrote (88497)3/27/2012 2:51:41 PM
From: Maurice Winn2 Recommendations   of 101279
 
You could add that question to your name and always post it. That's a good idea as it will help you get to the right ideas. I could give different replies each time.

Tradable Citizenship is the answer this time.

Envy of you? What aspect should I envy?

Mqurice

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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (88499)3/27/2012 3:32:38 PM
From: bart134 Recommendations   of 101279
 
You could add that question to your name and always post it.


If I thought it would help get you to answer simple questions that you always avoid because they're so inconvenient, I would.

At least you are now admitting that your answers sometimes vary, apparently per a whim.



Good grief MQ, are you really that afraid of being busted for your very own words?
Who owns you?
Can't you just man up and answer the question?

... and preferably without envy of your betters or the compulsion to play word games and do the logical fallacy boogie?

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To: bart13 who wrote (88484)3/27/2012 3:39:14 PM
From: Maurice Winn3 Recommendations   of 101279
 
Bart, here's how to escape your racism. Punish crooks whether they are big or small. I agree with you that evil-doing 1%er white collar criminals do enormous harm to lots of people. They destroy lives as surely as breaking into somebody's home, attacking them physically and robbing them. They should be punished for causing such great harm.

Bernie Madoff is in gaol for the rest of his life by the look of it. That's a fitting punishment [given the way people are punished].

Punishing all 1%ers because of the crimes of the few is racism by another name. There is probably a collection of 1%er genes which causes and enable them to become 1%ers. Punishing them all is evil. Punishing the actual crooks is the way to go. Taxing them all heavily to catch the few who are crooks is harmful. Consider Bill Gates and Warren Buffett for example. They have not robbed anybody.

They earned their money the hard way, by doing things that produce enormous wealth for everyone. Microsoft has enormously helped me in my life and billions of other people too, even if they don't directly use Microsoft. Not only have they earned vast wealth, they have set about using that wealth in philanthropic ways which are of great value but don't get a direct return on investment to the investors in those activities.

They could just give the money to governments to distribute but they have decided that they can do more good things by deciding how to spend that money without the envious voting to benefit themselves by voting to take that money from the government for themselves.

If there were Tradable Citizenships, government money would be wasted less as people would vote for their citizenship to go UP in value rather than down. Then people might choose to leave their money to the government rather than reinvent the wheel with their own philanthropic trusts.

When I was young, I didn't really mind taxes as they seemed to go to doing good things such as building dams, roads, and public assets. Almost nobody was on a benefit and unemployment was near zero. The few on benefits really had nowhere to go. The mentally and physically disabled needed support and they were few. Bludger was not far off a swear word. Now bludging is the norm in a vast tract of welfare and big government societies. But I soon learned that governments waste money by the ton and treat people are state-owned chattels.

Turning it around so that citizens own the state, rather than the state owning individuals, is the next stage of history. I should drop a line to Fukuyama to add another chapter to his "The End of History" [or whatever it's called]

Mqurice

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To: bart13 who wrote (88484)3/27/2012 4:07:30 PM
From: RJA_   of 101279
 
I find it is not possible to dialog w/ MQ, as kicking up smoke & disappearing in same is not conducive to dialog.

Occasionally, however IMHO MQ is right, as here, so not all useless:

>>If people want some distributed to them, they should offer to do something useful at a low price.That's how I get my money and always have. I find that if I do a really good job really cheaply, it's very very easy to get money distributed to me. Those people who want opm should try it some time.

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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (88501)3/27/2012 5:00:07 PM
From: bart136 Recommendations   of 101279
 
Bart, here's how to escape your racism.

I just love specious ad hominems, don't you?

Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues - especially "who owns you?".





Punishing all 1%ers because of the crimes of the few is racism by another name.

Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues, and you avoid dealing with issues and simple questions - especially "who owns you?".






Overall though:

Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues, especially allowing you to avoid dealing with the very simple and direct question "who owns you?".





Ok, so you'd don't want to answer the question "Who owns you?" for many reasons.
Please continue to hoist yourself on your own petard, as usual and again.

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To: RJA_ who wrote (88502)3/27/2012 5:05:37 PM
From: bart138 Recommendations   of 101279
 
Of course MQ is right sometimes, he's not unintelligent or unread etc... but the off the cuff silly crud like everyone is owned, and his incessant use of logical fallacies and doofus/fake real debate style needs to be brought to light occasionally.






Here are many of the "tricks" he uses that are also used by others, most especially including the evil portion of the 1% and 99%... and most politicians and professional PR folk etc. too - and they only compose about 2% of the entire population per my work (and no, MQ is not one of those):



Logical fallacies



Formal fallacies
are arguments that are fallacious due to an error in their form or technical structure. All formal fallacies are specific types of non sequiturs.
  • Ad hominem: an argument that attacks the person who holds a view or advances an argument, rather than commenting on the view or responding to the argument.
  • Appeal to probability: assumes that because something could happen, it is inevitable that it will happen. This is the premise on which Murphy's Law is based.
  • Argument from fallacy: if an argument for some conclusion is fallacious, then the conclusion is not credible.
  • Bare assertion fallacy: premise in an argument is assumed to be true purely because it says that it is true.
  • Base rate fallacy: using weak evidence to make a probability judgment without taking into account known empirical statistics about the probability.
  • Conjunction fallacy: assumption that an outcome simultaneously satisfying multiple conditions is more probable than an outcome satisfying a single one of them.
  • Correlative based fallacies
    • Denying the correlative: where attempts are made at introducing alternatives where there are none.
    • Suppressed correlative: where a correlative is redefined so that one alternative is made impossible.
    • Fallacy of necessity: a degree of unwarranted necessity is placed in the conclusion based on the necessity of one or more of its premises.
  • False dilemma (false dichotomy): where two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there are more.
  • If-by-whiskey: An argument that supports both sides of an issue by using terms that are selectively emotionally sensitive.
  • Ignoratio elenchi: An irrelevant conclusion or irrelevant thesis.
  • Is-ought problem: the inappropriate inference that because something is some way or other, so it ought to be that way.
  • Homunculus fallacy: where a "middle-man" is used for explanation, this usually leads to regressive middle-man. Explanations without actually explaining the real nature of a function or a process. Instead, it explains the concept in terms of the concept itself, without first defining or explaining the original concept.
  • Masked man fallacy: the substitution of identical designators in a true statement can lead to a false one.
  • Naturalistic fallacy: a fallacy that claims that if something is natural, then it is good or right.
  • Nirvana fallacy: when solutions to problems are said not to be right because they are not perfect.
  • Negative proof fallacy: that, because a premise cannot be proven false, the premise must be true; or that, because a premise cannot be proven true, the premise must be false.
  • Package-deal fallacy: consists of assuming that things often grouped together by tradition or culture must always be grouped that way.
  • Red Herring: also called a "fallacy of relevance." This occurs when the speaker is trying to distract the audience by arguing some new topic, or just generally going off topic with an argument.



Informal fallacies:
Informal fallacies are arguments that are fallacious for reasons other than structural (formal) flaws.
  • Argument from repetition (argumentum ad nauseam): signifies that it has been discussed extensively (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it anymore
  • Appeal to ridicule: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made by presenting the opponent's argument in a way that makes it appear ridiculous
  • Argument from ignorance (appeal to ignorance): The fallacy of assuming that something is true/false because it has not been proven false/true. For example: "The student has failed to prove that he didn't cheat on the test, therefore he must have cheated on the test."
  • Begging the question (petitio principii): where the conclusion of an argument is implicitly or explicitly assumed in one of the premises
  • Circular cause and consequence: where the consequence of the phenomenon is claimed to be its root cause
  • Continuum fallacy (fallacy of the beard): appears to demonstrate that two states or conditions cannot be considered distinct (or do not exist at all) because between them there exists a continuum of states. According to the fallacy, differences in quality cannot result from differences in quantity.
  • Correlation does not imply causation (cum hoc ergo propter hoc): a phrase used in the sciences and the statistics to emphasize that correlation between two variables does not imply that one causes the other
  • Demanding negative proof: attempting to avoid the burden of proof for some claim by demanding proof of the contrary from whoever questions that claim
  • Equivocation (No true Scotsman): the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time)
  • Etymological fallacy: which reasons that the original or historical meaning of a word or phrase is necessarily similar to its actual present-day meaning.
  • Fallacies of distribution
    • Division: where one reasons logically that something true of a thing must also be true of all or some of its parts
    • Ecological fallacy: inferences about the nature of specific individuals are based solely upon aggregate statistics collected for the group to which those individuals belong
  • Fallacy of many questions (complex question, fallacy of presupposition, loaded question, plurium interrogationum): someone asks a question that presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted by all the people involved. This fallacy is often used rhetorically, so that the question limits direct replies to those that serve the questioner's agenda.
  • Fallacy of the single cause ("joint effect", or "causal oversimplification"): occurs when it is assumed that there is one, simple cause of an outcome when in reality it may have been caused by a number of only jointly sufficient causes.
  • False attribution: occurs when an advocate appeals to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument
    • contextomy (Fallacy of quoting out of context): refers to the selective excerpting of words from their original linguistic context in a way that distorts the source’s intended meaning
  • False compromise/middle ground: asserts that a compromise between two positions is correct
  • Gambler's fallacy: the incorrect belief that the likelihood of a random event can be affected by or predicted from other, independent events
  • Historian's fallacy: occurs when one assumes that decision makers of the past viewed events from the same perspective and having the same information as those subsequently analyzing the decision. It is not to be confused with presentism, a mode of historical analysis in which present-day ideas (such as moral standards) are projected into the past.
  • Incomplete comparison: where not enough information is provided to make a complete comparison
  • Inconsistent comparison: where different methods of comparison are used, leaving one with a false impression of the whole comparison
  • Intentional fallacy: addresses the assumption that the meaning intended by the author of a literary work is of primary importance
  • Loki's Wager: the unreasonable insistence that a concept cannot be defined, and therefore cannot be discussed.
  • Moving the goalpost (raising the bar): argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded
  • Perfect solution fallacy: where an argument assumes that a perfect solution exists and/or that a solution should be rejected because some part of the problem would still exist after it was implemented
  • Post hoc ergo propter hoc: also known as false cause, coincidental correlation or correlation not causation. (ex: Thousands of experiments have conclusively proven that beating drums and clashing cymbals brings back the sun after a total eclipse.)
  • Proof by verbosity (argumentum verbosium) (proof by intimidation): submission of others to an argument too complex and verbose to reasonably deal with in all its intimate details. see also Gish Gallop and argument from authority.
  • Prosecutor's fallacy: a low probability of false matches does not mean a low probability of some false match being found
  • Psychologist's fallacy: occurs when an observer presupposes the objectivity of his own perspective when analyzing a behavioral event
  • Regression fallacy: ascribes cause where none exists. The flaw is failing to account for natural fluctuations. It is frequently a special kind of the post hoc fallacy.
  • Reification (hypostatization): a fallacy of ambiguity, when an abstraction (abstract belief or hypothetical construct) is treated as if it were a concrete, real event or physical entity. In other words, it is the error of treating as a "real thing" something which is not a real thing, but merely an idea.
  • Retrospective determinism (it happened so it was bound to)
  • Special pleading: where a proponent of a position attempts to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule or principle without justifying the exemption
  • Suppressed correlative: an argument which tries to redefine a correlative (two mutually exclusive options) so that one alternative encompasses the other, thus making one alternative impossible
  • Well travelled road effect: estimates of elapsed time is shorter for familiar routes as compared to unfamiliar routes which are of equal or lesser duration.
  • Wrong direction: where cause and effect are reversed. The cause is said to be the effect and vice versa.



Propositional fallacies:
  • Affirming a disjunct: concluded that one logical disjunction must be false because the other disjunct is true; A or B; A; therefore not B.
  • Affirming the consequent: the antecedent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be true because the consequent is true; if A, then B; B, therefore A.
  • Denying the antecedent: the consequent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be false because the antecedent is false; if A, then B; not A, therefore not B.



Quantificational fallacies:
  • Existential fallacy: an argument has two universal premises and a particular conclusion, but the premises do not establish the truth of the conclusion.
  • Proof by example: where examples are offered as inductive proof for a universal proposition. ("This apple is red, therefore apples are red.")



Formal syllogistic fallacies: Syllogistic fallacies are logical fallacies that occur in syllogisms.
  • Affirmative conclusion from a negative premise: when a categorical syllogism has a positive conclusion, but at least one negative premise.
  • Fallacy of exclusive premises: a categorical syllogism that is invalid because both of its premises are negative.
  • Fallacy of four terms: a categorical syllogism has four terms.
  • Illicit major: a categorical syllogism that is invalid because its major term is undistributed in the major premise but distributed in the conclusion.
  • Fallacy of the undistributed middle: the middle term in a categorical syllogism is not distributed.



Faulty generalizations:
  • Accident (fallacy): when an exception to the generalization is ignored
  • Cherry picking: act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position
  • Composition: where one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some (or even every) part of the whole
  • Dicto simpliciter
  • Converse accident (a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter): when an exception to a generalization is wrongly called for
  • False analogy: false analogy consists of an error in the substance of an argument (the content of the analogy itself), not an error in the logical structure of the argument
  • Hasty generalization (fallacy of insufficient statistics, fallacy of insufficient sample, fallacy of the lonely fact, leaping to a conclusion, hasty induction, secundum quid)
  • Loki's Wager: insistence that because a concept cannot be clearly defined, it cannot be discussed
  • Misleading vividness: involves describing an occurrence in vivid detail, even if it is an exceptional occurrence, to convince someone that it is a problem
  • Overwhelming exception (hasty generalization): It is a generalization which is accurate, but comes with one or more qualifications which eliminate so many cases that what remains is much less impressive than the initial statement might have led one to assume
  • Pathetic fallacy: when an inanimate object is declared to have characteristics of animate objects
  • Spotlight fallacy: when a person uncritically assumes that all members or cases of a certain class or type are like those that receive the most attention or coverage in the media
  • Thought-terminating cliché: a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance.



Red herring fallacies:
A red herring is an argument, given in response to another argument, which does not address the original issue. See also irrelevant conclusion
  • Ad hominem: attacking the person instead of the argument. A form of this is reductio ad Hitlerum.
  • Argumentum ad baculum (literally "appeal to the stick" or "appeal to force"): where an argument is made through coercion or threats of force towards an opposing party
  • Argumentum ad populum ("appeal to belief", "appeal to the majority", "appeal to the people"): where a proposition is claimed to be true solely because many people believe it to be true
  • Association fallacy (guilt by association)
  • Appeal to authority: where an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it
  • Appeal to consequences: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument that concludes a premise is either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences for a particular party
  • Appeal to emotion: where an argument is made due to the manipulation of emotions, rather than the use of valid reasoning
    • Appeal to fear: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made by increasing fear and prejudice towards the opposing side
    • Wishful thinking: a specific type of appeal to emotion where a decision is made according to what might be pleasing to imagine, rather than according to evidence or reason
    • Appeal to spite: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made through exploiting people's bitterness or spite towards an opposing party
    • Appeal to flattery: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made due to the use of flattery to gather support
  • Appeal to motive: where a premise is dismissed, by calling into question the motives of its proposer
  • Appeal to nature: an argument wherein something is deemed correct or good if it is natural, and is deemed incorrect or bad if it is unnatural
  • Appeal to novelty: where a proposal is claimed to be superior or better solely because it is new or modern
  • Appeal to poverty (argumentum ad lazarum): thinking a conclusion is correct because the speaker is financially poor or incorrect because the speaker is financially wealthy
  • Appeal to wealth (argumentum ad crumenam): concluding that a statement is correct because the speaker is rich or that a statement is incorrect because the speaker is poor
  • Argument from silence (argumentum ex silentio): a conclusion based on silence or lack of contrary evidence
  • Appeal to tradition: where a thesis is deemed correct on the basis that it has a long-standing tradition behind it
  • Chronological snobbery: where a thesis is deemed incorrect because it was commonly held when something else, clearly false, was also commonly held
  • Genetic fallacy: where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context.
  • Judgmental language: insultive or pejorative language to influence the recipient's judgment
  • Poisoning the well: where adverse information about a target is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that the target person is about to say
  • Sentimental fallacy: it would be more pleasant if; therefore it ought to be; therefore it is
  • Straw man argument: based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position
  • Style over substance fallacy: occurs when one emphasizes the way in which the argument is presented, while marginalizing (or outright ignoring) the content of the argument
  • Texas sharpshooter fallacy: information that has no relationship is interpreted or manipulated until it appears to have meaning
  • Two wrongs make a right: occurs when it is assumed that if one wrong is committed, another wrong will cancel it out
  • Tu quoque: the argument states that a certain position is false or wrong and/or should be disregarded because its proponent fails to act consistently in accordance with that position



Conditional or questionable fallacies:
  • Definist fallacy: involves the confusion between two notions by defining one in terms of the other
  • Luddite fallacy: related to the belief that labour-saving technologies increase unemployment by reducing demand for labour
  • Broken window fallacy: an argument which disregards hidden costs associated with destroying property of others.
  • Slippery slope: argument states that a relatively small first step inevitably leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant impact

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