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 Strategies & Market Trends | The Financial Collapse of 2001 and Beyond


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To: Haim R. Branisteanu who wrote (81149)10/10/2011 4:54:10 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu
1 Recommendation   of 106694
 
'Millionaire' home visits add to Wall Street protests Supporters planning to march to Upper East Side homes of some of city’s richest residents on Tuesday. On Wednesday, giant union SEIU 32BJ plans march to Wall Street for good jobs.

Read more: crainsnewyork.com 

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To: Ilaine who wrote (81146)10/10/2011 5:03:42 PM
From: Maurice Winn
2 Recommendations   of 106694
 
Thanks CB for the information from the front lines. What you wrote matches exactly the impression I have from having watched for decades the housing markets and how people think. The same thing applied here - people borrowed as much as they could to buy more house than they needed with a view to making as much money as they could through tax-free capital gains [capital gains are not taxed in NZ].

NZ doesn't have the melanin aspect which I guess was a small part of the overall mania in the USA, but it was all grist for the mill, inducing grossly ignorant people to try to join the free money ride.

Alan Greenspan KBE is misquoted as saying he was wrong. What he did say was that he was surprised that the financial institution shareholders did not consider avoiding losing their money was important enough to avoid doing so. He obviously thought that self-interest would protect the system. My assumption is that the bank shareholders were as much caught up in the mania as the others and did not see the risk which to me was glaringly obvious.

I went house-shopping in Escondido [California] in 2005 and house prices were [to me] about double what I thought was a fair price. Also, the whole house price mindset which was pandemic in NZ and I have had many conversations with younger house buyers as has our son who shorted the whole mess and did very well, seemed absurd. Even highly intelligent people [young doctors, lawyers and the like] did thinking by cliche and slogan. "House prices never go down." As the NZ prime minister said 30 years ago, people wouldn't recognize a deficit if they fell over it. How money and exchange rates and tax and the whole vastly complex financial relativity theory system works is beyond nearly everyone. Even though I have had a lifelong [since age 5] interest in money and how it works, I have no idea what " interest-only negative-amortization loans " are. I understand the "interest-only" part but don't know what negative amortization is.

34 years ago, a lawyer was advising me to borrow as much as I could to increase the capital gain on a house. While he was right at the time, that there would have been an increased capital gain, I didn't know when the music chairs music would stop and everyone would have to quickly find a chair to sit on and somebody would miss out. So I missed out on the capital gain but also missed out on the financial disaster of 1987 in NZ when the borrowing hysteria chickens came home to roost.

When do you think the market will have cleared and your bankruptcy proceedings will be back to "normal"? [the normal people who for whatever reasons end up in trouble even when there is no macro mess being re-normalized].

I haven't read "The Big Short" and don't plan to do so. I'm much more interested in where to from here and I have plans for where to. TJ says GG aka Get Gold. It is going on a decade ago that I guessed US$2,000 an ounce if financial messes got serious and US$10,000 [in 2002 dollars] for a gold standard to take over. Given the dilution since then, perhaps US$20,000 would be needed to create a gold standard.

We are pretty much at $2,000 and the trends of profligacy suggest we'll be there soon enough. A gold standard is too ridiculous for the 21st century. The gold culture it would create would be self-destructive. Already, $billions are being poured into production of more gold. With the production cost nearer $300 than $2,000 there is a LOT of money to be made by diluting existing gold. A culture like the Easter Island Moais will result, with hordes hacking stone out of a quarry and stacking it up to admire. Pointless and leading to no better result.

Meanwhile, the markets say "Hooray, France and Germany are going to save the world". Good luck with that. I don't recall Germany ever saving the world and France had its gloire 120 years ago with the Eiffel tower. A couple of times Germany's "saving the world" involved world record carnage.

Mqurice

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To: TobagoJack who wrote (81132)10/10/2011 5:22:00 PM
From: paintbrush
   of 106694
 
OWS is not about reform. Most don't even know why they are there.

This is a dry run for what is about to come in November 2012.

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To: paintbrush who wrote (81152)10/10/2011 5:42:00 PM
From: Paxb2u
   of 106694
 
You are correct on that. However, if there is enough rebelliousness before the elections, martial law may be put in place, and the elections put off. nfg.

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To: Metacomet who wrote (81140)10/10/2011 5:45:41 PM
From: Maurice Winn
2 Recommendations   of 106694
 
MC, the OWC mob is on the wrong street. Their complaint is rightly with the politicians who doled out public money to their favoured friends on "Wall Street". It is silly to blame those supplicants willing to receive said loot. It's a good bet that you are a recipient of public money too. Very few recipients of such loot say "Oh, don't give me so much public money, I get more than enough pay already." On the contrary, they try every trick in the book to get their share of the loot higher. For example, working very long hours in the last year and doing shenanigans with holiday pay to get the pension bigger [based on the last year's pay].

It's a good bet that "public servants" are getting mountains more loot than the Wall Streeters ever have.

The OWC should go and gather on the White House lawn to protest their hard-earned money [the few of them who earn money] being doshed out to Wall Street. Or on camp on the steps of Congress. There is a lot more campground space in downtown Washington too.

I'm with you and OWC that public money should not be doled out to umpty$millionaire bankers. But the place to stop it is where the money comes from, not where it goes to.

It seems that the main motivating force of OWC is good old-fashioned green-eyed envy. Greed and envy, the root of all evil.

Mqurice


PS: Feel free to recommend this post. I have recommended yours. Thank you to my normal team of recommenders. You are heroes!! Go team.

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To: Paxb2u who wrote (81153)10/10/2011 5:52:49 PM
From: Snowshoe
   of 106694
 
>>martial law may be put in place, and the elections put off.<<

ROTFL!

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To: carranza2 who wrote (81137)10/10/2011 5:53:32 PM
From: TobagoJack
2 Recommendations   of 106694
 
whatever the cases, i doubt many of the o.w.s. folks are employed in any productive sense of the word

but i do concede that they are well organized per report by aljazeera blogs.aljazeera.net  and suspiciously so by take of the russians. between the two sources, they ought to know what street crowds are all about

just in in-tray


From:J
Sent:2011 10 11 5:39 AM
Subject:RE: The Daily Bell - Russia Today (RT) Interview Raises Interesting Questions about Occupy Wall Street "Volunteers"

whatever the facts now matter less than the truth that ALL street movements get hijacked by organizations sooner rather than later, unless put down fast

i always am suspicious of american everywhere-except-here 'exceptionalism'

let us watch and brief this jasmine (oops, no, i meant Big Mac) revolution

my father was a british communist party member back in the 1930s







attached below are photos of two of his political cartoons published at the time - nothing much has changed since that time

go well w/ below song

hymn.ru 

Arise, ye workers from your slumber,
Arise, ye prisoners of want.
For reason in revolt now thunders,
and at last ends the age of cant!
Away with all your superstitions,
Servile masses, arise, arise!
We'll change henceforth the old tradition,
And spurn the dust to win the prize!
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction,
On tyrants only we'll make war!
The soldiers too will take strike action,
They'll break ranks and fight no more!
And if those cannibals keep trying,
To sacrifice us to their pride,
They soon shall hear the bullets flying,
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

No saviour from on high delivers,
No faith have we in prince or peer.
Our own right hand the chains must shiver,
Chains of hatred, greed and fear.
E'er the thieves will out with their booty,
And to all give a happier lot.
Each at his forge must do their duty,
And we'll strike the iron while it's hot.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.


cheers, j



From:H
Sent:2011 10 11 2:10 AM
Subject:Re: The Daily Bell - Russia Today (RT) Interview Raises Interesting Questions about Occupy Wall Street "Volunteers"


I distrust this leftist 'tea party with brains' (allegedly) as well.


On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 10:14 AM, W wrote:

thedailybell.com 

Wall St. protestors much better organized than in my Vietnam War era.Unlike
their Libyan counterparts they don't seem to have their own central bank yet
but they're certainly getting funding from somewhere.I'd love to ask the
blonde (who hardly appears homeless or distressed) how she pays the rent
while 'protesting' everyday.

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To: Paxb2u who wrote (81153)10/10/2011 6:05:17 PM
From: Maurice Winn
2 Recommendations   of 106694
 
It can happen: < if there is enough rebelliousness before the elections, martial law may be put in place, and the elections put off.> There have been constitutional crises in a couple of Anglophone democracies, [leaving aside Fiji and others], happily resolved by the monarchy [which is held in lower esteem than is deserved]. In Oz, the Governor General fired a Prime Minister. In NZ, ex-Prime Minister Muldoon seemed unlikely to go quietly and did what he could to cause a NZ$ crisis on the way out. In the end, he went and the new Prime Minister took over. But such things can lead to serious problems of who the police and army should obey. I like Queen Elizabeth II being sovereign because in such a situation, she would call the shots and the public would go along with her to avoid catastrophe.


Royalty is useful because they have an interest in stability. They do not want their countries to become a mess. They like constitutional process. They can call another election and get a solid result.


I'm not sure the public of the USA would be so enthralled by the President declaring himself in charge. The Supreme Court would not be able to declare themselves in charge. Neither would Congress - I doubt that Boehner would get wide public backing.


As Commander in Chief, Obama is the one with main political power.


The USA has already had a couple of civil wars - the first resulted in partition with King George being evicted. The second resulted in conquest of the southern states. There are plenty of guns ready for a third. But who would be against whom? The first was easy - those in America vs the English king. The second was quite clear too = the north vs the south. The third would be what? The Maoists vs the landowners and capitalists? It would be ironical if the USA went like China in 1948 while China goes like the USA when it was more capitalist and less socialist. For those OWS people, they should take a look at China in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s to see how much fun it was. Go live in a publicly owned hutong for a couple of winters.


Mqurice

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To: paintbrush who wrote (81152)10/10/2011 6:21:11 PM
From: TobagoJack
1 Recommendation   of 106694
 
otoh, o.w.s. must be put down as one would a foaming at the mouth dog that is suspected of infection

otoh, one cannot know but can suspect that o.w.s. has many and in truth more and more fellow travelers, enablers, facilitators, comrades, as well as sympathizers, and all growing in numbers as more and more have less and less, such that should the authorities move but underestimating the scope, the spark that tee-ed up a bush fire shall tee-up a prairie fire storm

otth, as team usa claims to be a democracy, the enveloping majority may just be able to vote in a character who at the core is not different from uncle joe stalin

let us watch n brief the big mac revolution

suggestion to professor bernanke, start the helicopter engines for the natives are getting seriously restless

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To: elmatador who wrote (81145)10/10/2011 6:22:02 PM
From: TobagoJack
   of 106694
 
qe 2, china

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