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To: Elroy who wrote (211268)12/30/2006 10:34:57 AM
From: geode00
   of 281380
OMG Elroy, do you actually read what you've written before you hit submit?

1. 6 years refers to what.

2. Anecdotal evidence amounts to what in this discussion.

3. I used your own stats silly.

4. Where do employment figures come from, how are they collected, what do they refer to and what is missing from them.

5. You admit you don't know. You admit that you're only talking about what you see around you. Exactly what is that worth.

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From: geode0012/30/2006 11:03:01 AM
   of 281380
Reactions to Hussein's Death Reflect Deep Divide

By Nancy Trejos
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 30, 2006; 7:44 AM

BAGHDAD, Dec. 30--Reaction to former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's execution reflected the deep sectarian divide that has torn the country apart since he was forced out of office in 2003.

In the southern city of Najaf, hundreds gathered close to the Imam Ali mosque, one of Shiite Islam's holiest sites, to celebrate the death of the Sunni leader they considered a tyrant. Others marched through the streets, carrying Iraqi flags and pictures of religious leaders while shooting in the air. "Saddam was executed. Die you Baathists," they shouted, referring to his Baath party.

In the town of Albu Ajeel, four miles from Hussein's Sunni hometown of Tikrit, about 400 people carried pictures of him and called for revenge. Carrying guns, they tried to enter Tikrit but were blocked by police. Mosques broadcast recitations from the Koran as an expression of mourning.

Hussein was hanged in the predawn hours of Saturday for crimes against humanity in the retaliatory killings of Shiite men and boys in the town of Dujail in the 1980s.

Hussein sympathizers condemned the timing of his death, on the day Sunnis consider the beginning of their holy Eid celebration. In Tikrit, there were no signs of the Eid celebration, no children dressed in new clothes, no people exchanging happy greetings.

"There's no Eid," said Sami Mahmoud, 35, a store owner in the Karrada district of Baghdad. "This is a day for the Persians and not for the Arabs. God have mercy on his soul."

Abdullah Al Obaidy, a tribal figure from the Obaid Tribe in the northern Iraq town Haweeja, said he and his family cried when they saw the news on state television.

"He had not said or done anything wrong," he said. "The Americans made a mistake by occupying Iraq, and relied on mercenaries and stooges who robbed the country and stole Iraq 's history, heritage and culture. This day registered a martyr and a hero who died for his cause."

Shiites rejoiced, calling it a holiday gift. They consider Sunday the first day of Eid.

"This is the real joy of Eid," Hussein Abu Ali, 35, a civil servant who lives in Karrada and said he had been exiled by Hussein as a child. "This is the biggest Eid ever. Now Saddam's execution has surpassed the joy of Eid."

Karar Hadi, 32, a taxi driver, said he was out when he heard the news on the radio but quickly went home to celebrate with his family. "When I arrived there, I took my AK-47 and shot 30 bullets in the air to express my happiness," he said.

Regardless of their sects, Iraqis inside the capital and elsewhere acknowledged the importance of the morning's events. Hussein has loomed large over their lives for three decades.

"It's something which we will never forget for the rest of our lives," Ali said. "Generations will be remembering this date."

Other Iraqis feared that Hussein's execution would breed more violence, at least in the short term. Some of those fears materialized. In the Shiite southern city of Kufa, near Najaf, an olive green KIA minibus exploded around 9:30 a.m. near the market place, said Kufa Mayor Yusif Al Janaby. A man parked the vehicle on the side of a road then walked away but was caught by a local shop owner, the mayor said. An angry mob beat him with sticks, rocks and their bare hands, killing him, he said.

Munthir Al Ithary, the director of the Najaf Health Department, said the blast killed 34 civilians and wounded 58, including women and children.

"I feel afraid. I'm not sure what's going to happen," said Wrood Traq, 25, Ali's cousin. "I wish to live in peace. I wish to leave happily."

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From: geode0012/30/2006 11:05:06 AM
   of 281380
Dec. Deadliest Month in Iraq for U.S.

The Associated Press
Saturday, December 30, 2006; 8:55 AM

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- At least 46 Iraqis died in bombings Saturday, including one planted on a minibus that exploded in a fish market in a mostly Shiite town south of Baghdad.

The man blamed for parking the vehicle in Kufa, a Shiite town 100 miles south of the Iraqi capital, was cornered and killed by a mob as he walked away from the explosion, police and witnesses said.

Another explosion killed 15 civilians and wounded 25 in Hurriyah, a mixed neighborhood of the Iraqi capital, police said.

There was no indication the attacks were related to the execution of Saddam Hussein. They came on the eve Eid al-Adha for Iraqi Shiites, the most important holiday of the Islamic calendar, and shoppers crowded into markets to buy supplies for the four-day festival.

At least 58 people were wounded in the Kufa blast, said Issa Mohammed, director of the morgue in the neighboring town of Najaf.

Television footage showed hundreds of men in traditional Arab headdresses swarming around the vehicle's charred frame, toppled on its side in the street. Ambulances and fire trucks pulled up to the site, and a coffin could be seen being loaded onto the top of a car.

The U.S. military announced the deaths of three Marines and two soldiers, making December the year's deadliest month for U.S. troops in Iraq with the toll reaching 108.

The Marines, all assigned to Regimental Combat Team 5, died Thursday of wounds from fighting in western Anbar province, the U.S. military said. A soldier assigned to 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division and also died in combat in Anbar, and another was killed by a roadside bomb in northwest Baghdad, the military said.

Their deaths pushed the toll past the 105 U.S. service members killed in October. At least 2,997 members of the U.S. military have been killed since the Iraq war began in March 2003, according to an AP count.

Saddam was hanged early Saturday, after his conviction last month for crimes against humanity in connection with the 1982 killings of 148 Shiites. Despite concerns about a spike in unrest, Saturday's violence was not unusually high.

Curfews were enforced in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit and in Samarra, both in the predominantly Sunni Salahuddin province north of Baghdad.

Mostly peaceful demonstrations broke out in several towns across Iraq, with hundreds of people marching in the streets carrying Iraqi flags and banners. Despite the curfew, gunmen in Tikrit paraded with his picture and fired their weapons into the air, calling for vengeance.

Police said Iraqi troops arrested 39 suspects with "quantities of weapons" in Balaz Ruz, 45 miles northeast of Baghdad.

On Friday, a suicide bomber killed at least nine people near a Shiite mosque in Baghdad, and 32 tortured bodies were found across the country.

American troops killed six people and destroyed a weapons cache in separate raids Friday in Baghdad and northwest of the Iraqi capital, the U.S. military said. One of the raids targeted two buildings in the village of Thar Thar, where U.S. troops found 16 pounds of homemade explosives, two large bombs, a rocket-propelled grenade, suicide vests and multiple batteries, the military said.

Iraqi forces backed by U.S. troops entered a mosque southeast of Baghdad, capturing 13 suspects and confiscating weapons, the U.S. military also said.

December was also shaping up to be one of the worst months for Iraqi civilian deaths since The Associated Press began keeping track in May 2005.

Through Thursday, at least 2,139 Iraqis have been killed in war-related or sectarian violence, an average rate of about 76 people a day, according to an AP count. That compares to at least 2,184 killed in November at an average of about 70 a day, the worst month for Iraqi civilians deaths since May 2005. In October, AP counted at least 1,216 civilians killed.

The AP count includes civilians, government officials and police and security forces, and is considered a minimum based on AP reporting. The actual number is likely higher, as many killings go unreported.

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To: geode00 who wrote (211275)12/30/2006 11:05:09 AM
From: Elroy
   of 281380
Congrstulations, a post lacking a personal insult. You're growing up. Try to keep up the civil tongue. Well done, Junior.

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To: Elroy who wrote (211278)12/30/2006 11:07:34 AM
From: geode00
   of 281380
Elroy, as I called you in that post, you are SILLY. I also asked you if you bothered to read and obviously the answer to that question is a resounding NO.

Good going fifth grader. Pack up warmly for school today and don't forget your lunch money.

If you're not going to READ before you POST then why do you bother posting at all? I'm still waiting for your tutorial on the currency system.

Where is it?

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To: geode00 who wrote (211279)12/30/2006 11:17:14 AM
From: Elroy
   of 281380
Much betterm you've gotten it down to "you are SILLY". The medication is perhaps working well?

I'm still waiting for your tutorial on the currency system.

Keep waiting.

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To: Elroy who wrote (211280)12/30/2006 11:52:55 AM
From: geode00
   of 281380
Elroy, ye of zero credibility, you said this:

"...the currency market has nothing to do with the oil market. They are separate, unrelated commodities. That help you understand things?"

So provide the tutorial on this subject. Explain it, I dare you.

You jump up and down and get all upset when you aren't taken seriously. You aren't a serious poster so go to the library today and read up so that, in the far distant future, you might possibly aspire to be a serious poster.

Educate yourself before you spout off about subjects you know nothing about.

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To: kumar rangan who wrote (211260)12/30/2006 11:54:00 AM
From: geode00
   of 281380
You're both ridiculous.

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From: geode0012/30/2006 11:55:21 AM
   of 281380
Amid quest for justice, the seeds of future strife

By Anne Barnard, Globe Staff | December 30, 2006

In the weeks after the fall of Saddam Hussein in the spring of 2003, Iraqis brimmed with tales about the abuses they had suffered under his government.

Stories of torture and humiliation poured from the lips of victims who had kept their silence for years, and bones literally came forth from the earth as bereaved families pulled the ribs and femurs of their lost loved ones from the dirt of mass graves dug in secret for the victims of Hussein's purges.

In Baghdad in those early days, it was easy to mistake the outpouring of newly liberated speech as a sign that Iraqi society was about to embark on a reckoning with its past, the way Russia, Rwanda and South Africa had done.

In retrospect, those early cathartic expressions -- mixed as they were with cries for revenge -- held the seeds of conflict that would complicate efforts to hold Hussein accountable through nonviolent and legal means, or to convince those who once supported him that his crimes were real.

Three years after his capture and the relentless, deadly blend of insurgency and civil war that followed, the execution of Hussein leaves Iraq with nagging, unresolved conflict and enmity, rather than the crisp, clear accounting of the country's ugly past that architects of his trial had hoped for.

It might also mark a lost opportunity for reconciliation.

The wildly disparate views that Hussein's hanging provoked in Iraq provide one stark measure of its potential to further divide Iraq's increasingly polarized ethnic and sectarian communities.

"A feast-day present" for Iraqis finally taking charge of their destiny, one Shi'ite Muslim political leader called the hanging, which coincided with the Eid al-Adha holiday. But the leader of the beleaguered Sunni Muslim bloc in parliament denounced it as the meddling of the United States and Iran.

An insurgent group called it a "crime," and Hussein himself, in a farewell letter, claimed the title of "martyr" to the Iraqi cause.

The death of the dictator -- at the hands of a government that Iraqis widely view as dominated by newly empowered Shi'ites in search of revenge -- cuts short any hope that his testimony and the evidence of his crimes could clarify the historical record and provide a peaceful outlet for grief and grievances.

The proceedings against Hussein appeared to have deepened sectarian divisions rather than to have paved the way for reconciliation.

And for many critics, the trial itself fell far short of the soaring Iraqi expectations for justice and accountability that accompanied his downfall almost four years ago.

One broiling afternoon in April 2003, Munir Mahmoud Hamid, a skinny 31-year-old, chased his former boss from an Iraqi state television channel down the street.

He proclaimed to a crowd that the man had ordered him jailed and beaten, and had forced colleagues to spit on him for some alleged disrespect he had shown toward Uday Hussein, Saddam Hussein's son.

Panting and exultant, Hamid said he finally felt free to tell the story. "And," he added without taking a breath, "to get revenge."

For many other Iraqis, the drive to uncover truth was linked to the desire for revenge, a desire that could be freely indulged because the disbanding of the army, the widespread looting and breakdown of public order ensured that there was no safe space to explore those issues. Anyone who was viewed as complicit, let alone admitting complicity, risked death.

The decision by the newly appointed US envoy, L. Paul Bremer, to disband the military left half a million men unemployed and fearful that there would be no place -- and no safety -- for them in the new Iraq. They would become one wing of the insurgency, entering a marriage of convenience with extremists who soon began to target Iraqi civilians, mainly Shi'ites. That cut short honest discussions of the past, since speaking openly was to risk death.

It took another eight months to find Hussein, skinny and cowering, in a hole tunneled into the earth of a farm in what was known as the Sunni Triangle. By then an insurgency was taking hold that would grip the country so hard that basic reconstruction would falter. Almost 3,000 Americans and untold numbers of Iraqis would be dead three years later, and 150,000 US troops would still be occupying the country.

When Hussein was captured in December 2003, no one knew that sectarian rifts between Sunnis and Shi'ites would open so wide that daily life in the capital would become a kind of Russian roulette. Now, Sunni drivers hope not to be stopped at a checkpoint run by Shi'ite militiamen and vice versa, lest they end up dead in a garbage dump with holes drilled in their heads, a common form of torture.

Those killings had already begun when Hussein went on trial in November, 2005, and the tensions showed in people's reactions.

Shi'ite victims dressed their children in party dresses and watched the testimony on TV, apparently amazed to see Hussein answering to a judge. But many Sunnis called the trial a US-run kangaroo court, and many Shi'ites wondered why he was being tried at all.

"They should execute him first, and then try him," Ammar Mohammed, a 28-year-old shop owner, said then.

As ethnic killings increased, Shi'ite witnesses were afraid to appear and three of Hussein 's defense lawyers were gunned down. Shi'ites were increasingly infuriated that Hussein was allowed to make political speeches in court that emboldened insurgents. The point of a trial was largely lost on Iraqis.

To many Sunnis, Hussein is a victim -- symbolizing their victim status. But to Shi'ites, even with Hussein gone, justice has yet to be done.

Anne Barnard, the Globe's Middle East co-bureau chief, covered Iraq for three years after the US invasion and the fall of Saddam Hussein.

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To: geode00 who wrote (211281)12/30/2006 12:22:10 PM
From: Elroy
   of 281380
Elroy, ye of zero credibility, you said this:

"...the currency market has nothing to do with the oil market. They are separate, unrelated commodities. That help you understand things?"

So provide the tutorial on this subject. Explain it, I dare you.

You're the guy who said one reason Saddam was removed was because he was going to price Iraqi oil in euros rather than dollars, thus prompting the whole line of discussion. The idea that Saddam was removed because he might price oil in euros is dumb. But you can try to support that view if you still hold it. Go ahead.

As for explaining the statement ""...the currency market has nothing to do with the oil market. They are separate, unrelated commodities.", the second sentence explains the first.

Do you still think one of the reasons that Saddam was removed was because he was about to price oil in euros, or have you changed your mind?

As for credibility, which posters on SI respect your views? List them please. Hell, list one.

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