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To: stockman_scott who wrote (153849)12/11/2004 11:29:02 AM
From: Michael Watkins   of 280801
 
US soldier seeks refugee status in Canada
By Joseph Kay
11 December 2004

Jeremy Hinzman, a 26-year-old former paratrooper in the US Marines 82nd Airborne Division, is seeking refugee status in Canada after fleeing the US. His hearing before the Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) in Toronto ended on December 8.

In his testimony, Hinzman argued that he has an obligation to refuse orders to fight in Iraq because the war is illegal and immoral. “Serving even one day in prison for refusing to comply with an illegal order is too long,” he said. “I would be prosecuted for acting upon a political belief...for refusing to do something that was wrong.”

Hinzman’s lawyer, Jeffrey House, argued that “wrongful prosecution is persecution.” He continued: “It would be wrong to prosecute someone who doesn’t want to participate in atrocities or in an illegal war. A conscientious objector should not be forced to fight.”

Hinzman faces up to five years in prison for desertion if he is sent back to the US. He has deliberately sought to attract media coverage of his case, for fear that the Canadian government would otherwise quietly deny his request and send him back to the US. “By being public,” Hinzman said, “I could ensure it would be handled openly and fairly.”

Hinzman’s argument has been hindered by the decision of Brian Goodman, the IRB member who is presiding over the hearing, that the legality or illegality of the war will not be an issue in his ruling. Goodman will issue a ruling by February 2005 based only on whether Hinzman has a reasonable fear of persecution for his religious or political beliefs, or faces the risk of cruel and unusual punishment if he returns to the US.

According to Hinzman, he joined the Marines in order to help pay for his college education, which he could not afford on his own. He was attracted by recruitment material portraying the military in glowing terms.

He quickly became disillusioned. He testified that during training his crew was repeatedly directed to chant slogans such as “What makes grass grow? Blood, blood, bright red blood,” and “Train to kill, kill we will.” He testified that in training, “We were on the run, singing cadences about raping and pillaging.”

The birth of his son in May 2002 further strengthened his opposition to war. “I didn’t want to have to kill babies,” he testified at his hearing.

Hinzman came to be attracted to the pacifist Quaker religion, and later to Buddhism. In 2002 he filed for conscientious objector (CO) status and requested to be transferred to a non-combatant post in the military. He was told that his application had been lost. The same year he was sent to Afghanistan, where he served as a paratrooper. He filed another CO application, which was rejected. He fled to Canada in January 2004, shortly before his battalion was to be sent to Iraq.

Despite the ruling by Goodman, Hinzman and his lawyers have repeatedly pointed to the fact that the Iraq war was unprovoked and illegal. “They said there were weapons of mass destruction,” Hinzman said. “They haven’t found any. They said Iraq was linked to international terrorist organizations. There haven’t been any links.” He has declared his belief that the war was motivated by the desire of the US to secure cheap sources of oil.

“I was faced with being deployed to Iraq to do what the infantry does, kill people, and I had no justification for doing so,” he testified. “This was a criminal war. Any act of violence in an unjustified conflict is an atrocity.”

He told CBS’ “60 Minutes” television program, “I was told in basic training that if I’m given an illegal or immoral order, it is my duty to disobey it, and I feel that invading and occupying Iraq is an illegal and immoral thing to do.”

Hinzman has cited the systematic killing of civilians by American troops in Iraq and the illegal holding of detainees in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. By participating in such actions, he argued, he would be committing illegal acts. For the US government to prosecute him and jail him for desertion for refusing to carry out atrocities would constitute persecution.

To support his claim that he would be forced to commit atrocities in Iraq, Hinzman told the IRB that the army encouraged soldiers to treat all Arabs and Muslims as potential terrorists. “We were being told that it was a new kind of war, that these were evil people and they had to be dealt with...We were referring to these people as savages.

Supporting testimony in Hinzman’s hearing was provided by former Marine Sergeant Jimmy Massey, who stated that US soldiers, including his own battalion, on numerous occasions had been directed to fire on unarmed civilians. “I knew in my heart these vehicles were civilians, but I had to act on orders given,” Massey testified, referring to vehicles approaching checkpoints set up by the US military.

He continued: “I saw plenty of Marines become psychopaths...they enjoyed killing.” He said his own battalion killed over 30 civilians in a span of 48 hours. “We were shooting up people as they got out of their cars trying to put their hands up.

“I was deeply concerned about the civilian casualties,” Massey said. “What they were doing was committing murder.”

He argued that if Hinzman is sent back to the US, he will be persecuted for his attempt to file CO status and his subsequent desertion. “There is a blackball system within the military if you file a CO petition: you’re giving yourself a death sentence.”

Hinzman and his family have received death threats and hate mail, including racist slurs against his two-year-old son and his wife, who is Vietnamese.

Hinzman’s hearing is seen as a test case. At least three other American soldiers have fled to Canada to avoid being sent to Iraq. Prominent voices in the Canadian political establishment have come out in opposition to granting Hinzman refugee status, in spite of Canada’s refusal to send troops to Iraq and the overwhelming opposition to the war in the country.

The Globe and Mail on December 9 published an editorial entitled, “A Deserter, Not a Refugee.” The newspaper made the extraordinary argument, repeated by other media and political figures, that Hinzman should be willing to accept jail time as a consequence of his actions, even if his arguments are valid. He “says that even one day in jail would be too much, which shows that he is not ready to pay the price in defense of his principle,” the newspaper wrote.

The Globe and Mail has also argued that since Hinzman originally volunteered, he has no basis for now rejecting service. This position was stated most crudely by columnist Margaret Wente, who wrote that the paratroopers Hinzman joined “are trained to drop out of the sky to kill people. He claims he was horrified by this revelation. You’ve got to wonder just what job skill he thought he’d signed up to acquire.”

All such arguments ignore the essential content of Hinzman’s claim: that the war is illegal and an atrocity, and therefore refusing to serve, regardless of whether or not he joined voluntarily, is entirely justified.

(The fact that this article comes from the World Socialist Web Site matters not one bit to me, as nothing alters the meaning of the quotations highlighted)

wsws.org 

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To: Michael Watkins who wrote (153852)12/11/2004 11:48:23 AM
From: stockman_scott   of 280801
 
Bond King Bill Gross on the fate of the dollar and its consequences...

pimco.com 

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To: cnyndwllr who wrote (153758)12/11/2004 12:02:49 PM
From: Mary Cluney   of 280801
 
<think that level of deception is damaging for a democracy and drives an even bigger wedge between people on each side of the thinking divide. And that's the "purpose" of revealing such clear cut examples of lies and deceits. Ed

The deception can go on for quite some time. It can get to absurd levels and people would continue to die for no reason.

Lyndon B Johnson who enlarged the Vietnam War to absurd levels would turn on the Generals and Officers that he bullied into telling lies about how well the war was going.

When things got really bad (absurd), he would ask his Officers why if he adds up all the body count reports of enemy soldiers killed and wounded, how could there be any enemy combatants left to fight?

Of course there was no answer to that because everyone was pushed into making up body counts (and officers were probably promoted because of their lies) and telling the President what he wanted (and ordered) to hear.

I think this is going to happen again. Everybody in the military chain of command knows what the President wants to hear and that is what they are going to tell him.

When it becomes impossible to continue this lie, the President will turn on the last person that contiues to tell him what he wants to hear.

You know, it will go something like "You go to war with the army that you have and not with the army you would like to have ...yada, yada, yada...."

That is what everyone told me, but knowing what I know now, I wouldn't change a thing..... I wouldn't want people to think I didn't have resolve ....like all those Clinton people.....yada, yada, yada....

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

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To: Mary Cluney who wrote (153855)12/11/2004 12:20:45 PM
From: stockman_scott   of 280801
 
I agree....As I have said Mr. Bush is NOT very good at on the job training...

Message 20848608

Bush does NOT know how to hold folks accountable for their actions and course correct in an intelligent way...Our current president is about as stubborn as they come and he has a tendency to hyperfocus in the wrong direction...I'm still NOT convinced that Bush and Karl Rove's GOP actually won the election legally on November 2nd...Did you see the hearings on C-SPAN last week -- reports of widespread fraud and voter intimidation in Ohio...

Message 20841525

truthout.org 

truthout.org 

truthout.org 

truthout.org 

minorjive.typepad.com 

20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA

nightweed.com 

-s2@WhereAreWoodward&BernsteinWhenWeReallyNeedThem.com

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To: Michael Watkins who wrote (153853)12/11/2004 1:22:17 PM
From: Suma   of 280801
 
I experienced the atrocity bit when working with troops returning from Korea at Indian town Gap Military Reservation in 1952.. The camp was used to train and ship and also for repatriation. The troops who had been to Korea were only too eager to share what they had done. Unfortunately I was young and what I learned destroyed illusions forever for me about war. I had always thought American troops handed out Hershey Bars and were good soldiers.

I won't go into detail but what a lot of troops with whom I was in contact told me was chilling. It was a form of braggadocio that they could relate such tales of horror.

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To: cnyndwllr who wrote (153758)12/11/2004 1:32:03 PM
From: Suma   of 280801
 
I agree with your post as I find it accurate in what in my brief experience with the Army Special Services was the case.
Cover ups, exaggerations,distortions and then appeasement to whomever is in CHARGE.. Mary Cluney gives a good response to your post cnydllr....

Truth is not an attribute in war as the story has to line up to pacify the American public, please the commander in chief and most of all keep Americans proud. The truth is too demoralizing and disastrous for it be revealed.

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To: Ish who wrote (153842)12/11/2004 2:52:49 PM
From: jlallen   of 280801
 
You forgot Afghanistan....

Knuckleheads like GST are not capable of reason....

Ignore the America hating a-hole....

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To: jlallen who wrote (153859)12/11/2004 4:08:54 PM
From: Ish   of 280801
 
Today on Mail Call, R. Lee Ermay was in Afghanistan playing with American and captured Russian toys. He got some trigger time with some REAL guns and RPGs.

You and I may call removing the Taliban and getting rid of 3-4 million land mines humanitarian but GST might whine about the US stealing those kid maiming mines the Russians left.

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To: Michael Watkins who wrote (153850)12/11/2004 7:20:20 PM
From: neolib   of 280801
 
Government exists to keep the people in line and if we need to do nasty things somewhere, the people are best kept in line if such things are performed under the cover of a purportedly noble pursuit.

That requires conspiratorial geniuses, all I see are dunces. Bush didn't plan to have Iraq go so poorly, which is why it went poorly.

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To: Ish who wrote (153860)12/11/2004 7:39:13 PM
From: neolib   of 280801
 
You and I may call removing the Taliban and getting rid of 3-4 million land mines humanitarian but GST might whine about the US stealing those kid maiming mines the Russians left.

But we sent quite a few of them to Central America a few years back where they still kill and maim kids today.

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