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To: Elsewhere who wrote (128704)4/8/2004 10:54:13 PM
From: tekboy   of 280800
 
for some more pinko commentary from the Illuminati, check out this:

discuss.washingtonpost.com 

tb@wheredotheygettheseguys?.com

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To: ManyMoose who wrote (128770)4/8/2004 10:57:21 PM
From: longnshort   of 280800
 
Dave, you said "Besides, you are judging him in the context of OUR time, not his own" Dave how refreshing, althought that will get you kicked out of Berkeley and Harvard. Remember the founding 'White Fathers' are evil.

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To: Bilow who wrote (128743)4/8/2004 11:00:27 PM
From: Sam   of 280800
 
Carl,
This is one point on which Kerry isn't saying much that is different than other Republicans like Hagel and Lugar, as well as Democrats like Biden.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry called the administration's June 30 deadline "arbitrary" in an NPR interview broadcast Wednesday. He also accused President Bush of not providing "Americans with a thorough understanding of exactly who we are turning the authority over to and precisely what the consequences of that will be."


Do you doubt that the deadline is "arbitrary," that it was originally set up with the US election in mind?

Of course, Lugar, Biden and Hagel have all said in recent days that they are alarmed at the fact that there doesn't seem to be a plan in place for a turnover that is less than three months away now. It isn't clear to me why they should be surprised--has there ever been a plan in place for what would happen after Saddam was deposed? My guess is that they were so obsessed with getting rid of him that they just took Chalabi's word that the cheering in the streets would be so great that the crowds would accept anyone Washington foisted on them, as long as the electricity kept going, the oil and consequent revenues were flowing, and the leader could speak Arabic. That was the plan, with no Plan B. Either gratitude or shock and awe would take care of things. They are idiots. Leo Strauss, if he were still alive, would give those of these people who were his former students "F"s for not paying close enough attention to Machiavelli's strictures on invading lands that are not contiguous to your own and have different languages, gods and customs.

These are the people you want to return to office for four more years.

If Bush were saying that he was postponing the date, Kerry would be saying that Bush was breaking his promise. If he were saying that the date needed to be looked at more carefully, Kerry would be calling him wishy-washy.

Surely the Bush people ask for this with their hubris and their own almost never fair attacks on Kerry, taking what he said and did totally out of context and ascribing to it meanings that they never had. However, in this case, although you might be right, it might also be that if Bush postpones the date, Kerry might say something like, the date was never really tenable, it was an example of how politically motivated his original plan was, it was never based on a realistic appraisal of the situation on the ground in Iraq, and it is good that he is finally doing something right, even if he has to change his mind--and, contrary to the apparent beliefs of some people running advertisements against Kerry, changing your mind isn't always wrong (like duhhhh).

But even I have to admit that sometimes Kerry comes off looking more like someone concerned with being on message and trying to avoid saying the wrong thing rather than just speaking his mind. I have seen him do the latter, but he has seemed more like the former recently. I don't like it. My guess is he is still trying to get his rhetorical stance straight, it isn't easy to do in a race as tight as this and a political situation as fluid as this one is, and where he knows that every word he says right now will be analyzed to bits and ripped to pieces if at all possible.

I sure wouldn't want to run for office.

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To: longnshort who wrote (128772)4/8/2004 11:05:04 PM
From: ManyMoose   of 280800
 
LOL! I'd be so proud!

Berkeley produced at least one conservative: my son-in-law. He's so right wing even I can't stand it.

that will get you kicked out of Berkeley and Harvard. Remember the founding 'White Fathers' are evil.

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To: ManyMoose who wrote (128764)4/8/2004 11:08:44 PM
From: longnshort   of 280800
 
dave, why do you think the splitting of this country would have been bad, the institution of slavery was dying(an economical failure). Two strong Capitalistic Democratic countries, each trying to out do each other could have done wonders for this planet. Maybe WW1 and WW2 would nor have occured?
If you read Gore Vidal and others Lincoln and the norths victory led to the start of US imperialism. My would have the world been different? Come on open your mind

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To: ManyMoose who wrote (128774)4/8/2004 11:15:30 PM
From: longnshort   of 280800
 
Good for him, you must be proud. My two sons lead every conservative debate. They have turned many. If people can keep an open mind the truth will win out, that's why the Fathers wanted a free press.

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To: longnshort who wrote (128775)4/8/2004 11:28:37 PM
From: ManyMoose   of 280800
 
Interesting premise, but I wouldn't like it one bit. You see, all my ancestors are buried in South Carolina where some of them held large land grants from King George (and you know what that means), I was born in North Carolina, and I'm a Damn Yankee living north of the Mason-Dixon line about 59 of my 59.8 years.

At this point, I don't care if the US fits the imperialist label or not as long as it's the greatest nation on earth and I live here.

Actually, I started only one Gore Vidal novel (Burr) because I knew two descendants of Burr. One was a Baptist minister and the other was an Ohio corn farmer. The novel sucked, so I did not finish it.


I agree with you that slavery was dying of its own weight, but I don't see two American nations as being a happy combination. For example, under your premise, it's entirely possible that one would have allied with the Kaiser or Hitler. Where would we be then, huh?


Message #128775 from longnshort at Apr 8, 2004 11:08 PM

dave, why do you think the splitting of this country would have been bad, the institution of slavery was dying(an economical failure). Two strong Capitalistic Democratic countries, each trying to out do each other could have done wonders for this planet. Maybe WW1 and WW2 would nor have occured?
If you read Gore Vidal and others Lincoln and the norths victory led to the start of US imperialism. My would have the world been different? Come on open your mind

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To: longnshort who wrote (128776)4/8/2004 11:33:52 PM
From: ManyMoose   of 280800
 
I'm proud of my daughter, who became a conservative after meeting her husband.

If your sons are able to turn people away from liberalism they must be unusually persuasive. If the SI bulletin boards are any indicator, most liberals are incorrigible and immune to persuasion.

I can't figure out if you are a conservative, a liberal, or a libertarian. I'm guessing the latter. I think you just like to play.

Message #128776 from longnshort at Apr 8, 2004 11:15 PM

Good for him, you must be proud. My two sons lead every conservative debate. They have turned many. If people can keep an open mind the truth will win out, that's why the Fathers wanted a free press.

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To: ManyMoose who wrote (128778)4/8/2004 11:43:52 PM
From: longnshort   of 280800
 
Dave, Me play? heheh. Bingo. It can be great fun. It is amazing how many people are ignorant of history, human nature, science and reality.

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To: Sig who wrote (128763)4/8/2004 11:54:38 PM
From: Zeuspaul   of 280800
 
But if the 4 separate crews were not aware of what the other crews we planning,we would have had to know the total number of highjackers and capture all 20.

You are making the same mistake Rice made...we couldn't do anything because we did not have specific details. What does she want...the flight number and the hyjacker's name?

There is a LOT we could have done to prevent the attack without specific details. How many of the attacks would have been successful if all the planes had hardened cockpit doors? If we can't do anything to protect ourselves without specific info as to their plans why have we made all the changes to airline security? Why do we inspect luggage on flights without specific threats?? Should we leave the doors unlocked without a specific threat?

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