Politics | Sharks in the Septic Tank


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To: Constant Reader who wrote (47802)5/17/2002 10:31:32 AM
From: Neocon   of 82484
 
This is a good example of mischaracterization. In fact, I do not presume a sexual dalliance. My position has always been that they were friends, that there was nothing much in the PMs and e- mails that was not in keeping with the more overt postings, and that the break in the relationship seemed less than permanent to CH, since anger usually softens over time, after one has "made one's point". Of course, I am merely speculating, but the main thing is, my speculation had nothing to do with a sexual dalliance, you read that in. For the rest, I do not care to reiterate my posts of the last couple of days.......

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To: E who wrote (47804)5/17/2002 10:34:10 AM
From: Neocon   of 82484
 
The more I have read the alleged documentation, the thinner it has seemed. Sorry, just the truth....On the other, I have posted that he should share some of the PMs, and since I have characterized his behavior in negative terms, for example, calling it boorish, or saying his has acted like a jerk, I do indeed think some sort of apology would be in order........

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To: Neocon who wrote (47803)5/17/2002 10:40:58 AM
From: E   of 82484
 
This is in your "initiating post."

but I keep stumbling on the fact that I really have no very good idea of what happened in the first place, especially in a way that I can verify independently of the parties to the dispute.

Fortunately, you can now verify independently. The party who claims he has justification for what he did can now show it.

Do you disagree with anything in this post, that I sent you earlier?

If it is deeply distressing to its recipient, the subject of the innuendo and insinuation and unwelcome attention, and she makes clear that it is, and her friends do, too; if she begs him to stop; if her husband does the same; if he claims his attentions are somehow justified, but because we see only "the tip of the iceberg" he can't prove it; if he is given leave to show the whole iceberg and refuses...

....When you cause suffering, do it protractedly, repeatedly, and knowingly, that is not called "jerkiness," it's called sadism and obsession.

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To: E who wrote (47807)5/17/2002 10:48:43 AM
From: Neocon   of 82484
 
I already posted to him that he should share some of the PMs......As for the rest, if the the particulars were all as alleged, I would agree. Otherwise, not......

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To: Neocon who wrote (47806)5/17/2002 10:49:15 AM
From: E   of 82484
 
Some things are irreducible.

I would have suffered as much as has Poet had I been the object of an obsessional, insinuating stalking.

Maybe not quite as much. To some degree I get mad where she gets frightened. I would also have been on the phone with his wife a long time ago.

But I would surely have lost a lot of sleep and peace of mind over it, and probably been forced to give up the SI community entirely. Though Poet uses it for the stock threads, too, so it would be more difficult for her to do that.

You are somehow missing the suffering part. It seems like a kind of tone-deafness or something. It was done on purpose, and wouldn't have been done if CH didn't know that it caused suffering, of course.

I don't know why this isn't transparent to you, or why Poet's suffering doesn't weigh with you, or isn't credited. It is real.

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To: E who wrote (47809)5/17/2002 10:54:50 AM
From: Neocon   of 82484
 
We simply disagree on the obviousness of what transpired.

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To: E who wrote (47809)5/17/2002 10:59:52 AM
From: Solon   of 82484
 
CH is being counselled to produce "some" posts that might on the face of it appear to his benefit. Of course,producing "some", or "one" would merely provide the basis for additional innuendo, association, insinuation, and the like. In the end, it would support allegations that he has used manipulation and misdirection with the intent to wound. So, of course, we will be seeing all of them, if we see any...

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To: Neocon who wrote (47808)5/17/2002 11:05:48 AM
From: E   of 82484
 
I just re-read the passage you would agree about, if its particulars are as alleged. It's the bolded one below.

Since every item in it is completely documented, and the only one you have to take someone's word for is that the unwelcome attentions have been "deeply distressing," I am now wondering whether you simply don't believe that Poet has suffered from this, and that her husband has as well.

She has been put on anti-anxiety meds because of it.

I would have had to seek such help, too. Evidently you wouldn't have.

If you choose to believe CH's treatment of Poet to be not-so-bad, just kind of "jerky," and to disbelieve that Poet has been harmed, well, you have a right to make such a choice.

If it is deeply distressing to its recipient, the subject of the innuendo and insinuation and unwelcome attention, and she makes clear that it is, and her friends do, too; if she begs him to stop; if her husband does the same; if he claims his attentions are somehow justified, but because we see only "the tip of the iceberg" he can't prove it; if he is given leave to show the whole iceberg and refuses...

....When you cause suffering, do it protractedly,
repeatedly, and knowingly,
that is not called "jerkiness," it's called sadism and obsession.

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To: E who wrote (47812)5/17/2002 11:10:12 AM
From: Neocon   of 82484
 
I do not agree that everyone of the particulars is completely documented.......

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To: Neocon who wrote (47810)5/17/2002 11:10:14 AM
From: J. C. Dithers   of 82484
 
We simply disagree on the obviousness of what transpired

Well, I think that is because you are not giving sufficient attention to the insinuations, inferences, innuendos, implications, apparently's, evidently's, and presumably's that constitute E's version of "what transpired."

Try inserting all of these, and you may see E's point.

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