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To: i-node who wrote (655904)5/21/2012 6:48:56 PM
From: tejek   of 717237
 
>> Yes, there is.............the predominate media in this country is right wing.

You nitwit. Nobody in his right mind believes this.

Who said you all are in your right mind?

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To: i-node who wrote (655820)5/21/2012 6:49:48 PM
From: tejek   of 717237
 
The dems are in total disarray. I love it.

LOL. That's what you got out of that video? Good on you.

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To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (655898)5/21/2012 6:52:43 PM
From: Jane4IceCream   of 717237
 
What....you playing word games now??


Jane

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To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (655889)5/21/2012 6:52:48 PM
From: Brumar89   of 717237
 
But if Obama didn't know where OBL was for 2 years, then Bush wouldn't have either.

Did you know if the mission failed, Obama was going to blame it on Panetta?


As for Rumsfeld he didn't leak anything about WMD's, but George Tenet, Clinton's CIA director retained by Bush, said WMD's were a 'slam dunk.'

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From: Brumar895/21/2012 6:54:46 PM
1 Recommendation   of 717237
 
Wa Post calls Mountain Meadows Massacre America's First 911.

I said media exploitation of the Mountain Meadows Massacre was coming.

Washington Post Asks The Important Question: In a Way, Isn't Romney Sort of Responsible for a Massacre By Mormons 160 Years Ago? [Open Blogger is Ace, today. Having problems with my login, due to my own stupidity.]

The Washington Post wants to know if voters will hold it against Romney that Mormons massacred Arkansans in something they've decided to start calling "America's first 9/11."

That's funny. Because I have a question for the Washington Post to explore. Given that Obama's application for school in Indonesia stated his religion as "Islam," do they care to explore whether voters will hold it against Obama that his one-time coreligionists were responsible for what I guess we're now calling "America's Second 9/11," which is actually its first one? You know, the real 9/11?

Why would this be unimportant to explore?

Hell, why stop at America's Second-slash-Actual 9/11?

Have people gotten over the Barbary Pirates yet? Thomas Jefferson was pretty angry about their kidnapping/enslaving.

I'm going to start calling that "America's Real First 9/11 Even Though It's Not 9/11."

Next up from The Washington Post:

Michiganders Struggle With Roiling Legacy of "America's Second 9/11 -- The Trim"

Public still terrorized by Romney cutting that gay kid's bangs

[ How about a headline reading 'Michigander's still tremble over young Romney's hair-cutting rumble'?

Thinking about it, I'm not sure I believe the hair-cutting thing ... Mitt running with scissors? Probably never happened.
]

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/329447.php

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Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith tangles with a quirk of Arkansas history By Sandhya Somashekhar, Published: May 20
CARROLLTON, Ark. — On the wildflower-studded slopes of the Ozarks, where memories run long and family ties run thick, a little-known and long-ago chapter of history still simmers.

On Sept. 11, 1857, a wagon train from this part of Arkansas met with a gruesome fate in Utah, where most of the travelers were slaughtered by a Mormon militia in an episode known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Hundreds of the victims’ descendants still populate these hills and commemorate the killings, which they have come to call “the first 9/11.”

Many of the locals grew up hearing denunciations of Mormonism from the pulpit on Sundays, and tales of the massacre from older relatives who considered Mormons “evil.”

“There have been Fancher family reunions for 150 years, and the massacre comes up at every one of them,” said Scott Fancher, 58, who traces his lineage back to 26 members of the wagon train, which was known as the Fancher-Baker party. “The more whiskey we drunk, the more resentful we got.”

[ Great, they get to nail two stereotypes at once. Killer Mormon militias and moonshine swilling hillbillies. ]

There aren’t many places in America more likely to be suspicious of Mormonism — and potentially more problematic for Mitt Romney, who is seeking to become the country’s first Mormon president. Not only do many here retain a personal antipathy toward the religion and its followers, but they also tend to be Christian evangelicals, many of whom view Mormonism as a cult.

And yet, there is scant evidence that Romney’s religion is making much difference in how voters here are thinking about the presidential election and whether they are willing to back the former Massachusetts governor.

“I think the situation right now is more anti-Obama than any other situation,” said Dave Hoover, chairman of the Carroll County Republicans.

It is impossible to know how Romney’s faith will play out in the November election. Polls point to a persistent skepticism about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and not just among evangelical Christians. Thirty-five percent of Americans in a Bloomberg News poll in March said they had an unfavorable view of the church, while 29 percent had a favorable view.

But it may not have a major impact on their vote: Eight out of 10 Republicans and Democrats said Romney’s faith was not a major reason to support or oppose him, according to an April Washington Post-ABC News poll. And a recent study by the Brookings Institution found that Romney’s religion may actually increase his support from conservative voters, including white evangelicals.

Indeed, many here say their political values will be more important to their vote than religion or history. A rural and deeply religious community, many cite the cultural issues of abortion and gun rights as foremost on their minds. The weak economy has deepened their dislike of President Obama, who received less than 40 percent of the vote in Arkansas in 2008.

Still, Romney’s candidacy has prompted some soul-searching in this area, where a historical group estimates that more than half the residents can trace their ancestry back to the wagon train.

“There’s families all scattered in through this area who had ancestors in that, so there is a tinge of anti-Mormonism in this area, a little bit of bias I suppose,” said Republican Roy Ragland, a former state legislator and pastor who does not believe it will make an appreciable difference at the polls.

The massacre was an anomaly for the church, because it was Mormons who were more likely to be targeted in the early days of their religion, which was founded in the 1830s and 1840s.

Mormons had been attacked by mobs and forcibly ejected from states. They were viewed as a political threat and targeted for their now-abandoned practice of polygamy.

The Mountain Meadows Massacre remains one of the darkest episodes in the history of Mormonism. The church has apologized for the incident, and Romney addressed it during his 2007 presidential campaign in response to a reporter’s question.

“That was a terrible, awful act carried out by members of my faith,” he told the Associated Press. “There are bad people in any church, and it’s true of members of my church, too.”

Violence erupted between Mormons and non-Mormons elsewhere, such as Carthage, Ill., where Mormon founder Joseph Smith was murdered by a mob. And in Independence, Mo., site of the “Missouri Mormon War,” a conflict that resulted primarily in Mormon deaths.

In northwestern Arkansas, at least two monuments commemorate the massacre, including a towering wooden cross erected just six years ago. On it is carved a biblical saying: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay saith the Lord.”

Historians believe the wagon train of 30 families, laden with cattle and other goods, set off in early 1857 seeking a better life in California.

Their journey took them through Utah, where a skittish Mormon population had sought refuge from persecution but were preparing for an invasion by the federal government, which feared the Mormons were plotting treason.

Accounts differ about why tensions escalated, but local Mormon leaders decided to attack the wagon train with the help of a local Native American tribe, on whom they planned to lay the blame. After days of exchanging fire, a Mormon leader approached the camp to offer safe passage. But it was a ruse: The Mormon militia massacred the men and women and many of the children, 120 in all. Seventeen of the youngest were spared, and adopted by local families until federal authorities intervened to return them to Arkansas. Years later, John D. Lee, a Mormon, was tried and executed for the crime.

The Mormon Church has consistently said it was a renegade local militia, not church leaders, who authorized the killings, though some of the victims’ descendants are skeptical of that claim.

The massacre is a familiar story in this region, where blood ties and history are so respected that people can rattle off the myriad ways in which they are related to their neighbors, and every spring, they lay flowers at the graves of their ancestors.

Once impoverished, the area experienced a boom in the early part of this century, driven in part by Wal-Mart, which is headquartered a few miles away in Bentonville.

But it still carries the character of a modest mountain community, where people teach their children to hunt raccoons and relatives are referred to as “kin.” It is so conservatively Christian that former governor Mike Huckabee once derided its politicians as “Shiite Republicans.”

Descendants’ groups headquartered here for years have worked with, and sometimes clashed with, the Mormon Church to create a public memorial at the site of the massacre, which sits on church property. They succeeded last year, when the site became a National Historic Landmark.

“It’s an emotional thing for us,” said Phil Bolinger, president of the Mountain Meadows Monument Foundation. “When you come of age, when you mature, things to do with your own blood kin becomes more important and you become passionate about it.”

In another quirk of history, both of the main presidential candidates have ties to this region. Parley Pratt, an ancestor of Romney’s and an esteemed figure in the Mormon Church, was murdered in Arkansas shortly before the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Historians have speculated that anger over this killing may have played a part in the massacre.

And in a cemetery nearby is buried Nathaniel Bunch, an ancestor of Obama’s, according to local genealogists, who say Bunch was a contemporary of the wagon train emigrants.

Some here also are skeptical of the president’s faith, believing their choice this fall is between a Mormon and a Muslim (Obama has repeatedly affirmed his Christian faith).

None of that history, though, including the massacre, may make much of a difference at the polls.

“That was 200 years ago,” Doug Steele, 45, a Republican insurance agent related to some of the massacre victims, said over a chicken sandwich at Granny’s Kitchen in Huntsville. “It’s been a long time. You can’t hate forever.”



Polling analyst Scott Clement contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-mormon-faith-tangles-with-a-quirk-of-arkansas-history/2012/05/20/gIQAKHVFeU_print.html

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To: tejek who wrote (655903)5/21/2012 7:00:08 PM
From: mel2211 Recommendation   of 717237
 
There is no fight here. Just a difference of opinions. I respect you for having strongly held opinions. I just strongly disagree with them.

>> We'll see

We'll see what?

Lot's of liberals state "if so and so gets elected, I will leave the country". And several have. Redford, Clooney come to mind.

On the other hand, conservatives regroup and retrench and try harder... but continue to be loyal Americans.

A while back you were fantasizing about the disintegration of the United States. Do you still entertain such fantasies?

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To: i-node who wrote (655819)5/21/2012 7:01:09 PM
From: tejek   of 717237
 
Ir sounds to me like the Romney campaign is saying Obama knows exactly how the free enterprise system works. Of course, the Romney campaign's response sounds a bit sleazy but then its from Romney.

And kudos to Booker for speaking his mind even if he's wrong. You would never see an R do the same.

Romney campaign: Mitt bleeding companies to death just like President Obama saving auto industry


by Jed Lewison

Trigger alert: Your jaw is going to drop after you read this question from none other than Andrea Mitchell to Mitt Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstom (he of "Etch-A-Sketch" fame):
ANDREA MITCHELL: There are winners and losers, but isn't it fair to single out companies that might have survived if they had not been bleeded by the investors and the money taken out? Isn't there a way that they could have lasted longer if Bain had not pulled the plug on them?
Before I even get to Fehrnstrom's response (which you know is going to be gold), can we just pause for a moment and reflect on just how stunning it is to hear Andrea Mitchell casually talk about how Mitt Romney's business model includes bleeding companies to death, taking their money out and pulling the plug? Okay, now pick your jaw back up and check out Fehrnstrom's response:


ERIC FEHRNSTROM: Look, sometimes when companies are in trouble they require corrective measures. Let's take an example: General Motors. When the government, when the Barack Obama administration was running General Motors, they had to take corrective measures to save the company. So what did they do? They shut down plants. They closed dealerships. They laid off employees. They had to change benefits for workers to make them less costly. That's the nature of free enterprise. And today, General Motors is a profitable company because of the steps that were taken to bring their costs in alignment with their revenues.
I'll give you a second to recollect your jaw because I know you dropped it after reading that nonsense. I guess the good news is that Mitt Romney's campaign is finally conceding that it believes President Obama understands the nature of the free enterprise system, something they've denied since day one. Of course, General Motors needed to be bailed out because private markets had failed ... which brings us to the absurdity of Fehrnstrom's response, the premise of which is was that Mitt Romney's business model was no different than President Obama's.

Of course, there's a big difference: President Obama was taking a step to save hundreds of thousands of jobs and protect a vital national industry because it was the right thing to do. Mitt Romney was maximizing value for his investors. The fact that Mitt Romney sought to maximize profits is not inherently wrong. In fact, the quest for profits is one of the things that fuels economic growth. But the president's job isn't to maximize profits, it's to maximize the strength of the nation—and that's not something Mitt Romney or Eric Fehrnstom seem to understand.

President Obama measures the success of the auto bailout in terms of how many jobs it created and whether it saved the industry as a whole. By that metric, it's been a resounding success, with more than 100,000 jobs created in the auto sector since it hit bottom in 2009. Eric Fehrnstrom, who is Mitt Romney's closest aide, measures the success of President Obama's policy on the basis of General Motors' profitability.

In Mitt Romney's world, America's bottom-line is the corporation's bottom-line. In Barack Obama's world, America's bottom-line is its people's bottom-line. And Eric Fehrnstrom's response to Andrea Mitchell couldn't have made that distinction any more clear.


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To: tejek who wrote (655905)5/21/2012 7:06:33 PM
From: i-node   of 717237
 
>> Oh God.............your delusion is worse than I thought. Take care of yourself.

I know it isn't personal, tejek -- but you seem to have responded to every reply to that post other than mine. What's the deal? Finding it difficult to argue with the facts?

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To: tejek who wrote (655905)5/21/2012 7:07:07 PM
From: mel2212 Recommendations   of 717237
 
What delusion?

Leadership is defining goals and providing motivation and the means for a team to accomplish them.

By your own postings, President Bush established himself as a leader.

Clearly, President Obama has tried to lead by setting goals. He has failed to meet his own goals. I can accept Obama's failures as a matter that he did his best... but wasn't good enough.

Bush succeeded in implementing his policies while Obama has failed. Pretty simple observation really.

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From: Brumar895/21/2012 7:08:33 PM
1 Recommendation   of 717237
 
Gawker Shifts Narrative Again: Trayvon 'Beaten' By Zimmerman




by Lee Stranahan 1 day ago
As every single thread of the Left's narrative that "George Zimmerman was a racist white man who shot and killed Trayvon Martin in cold blood" disintegrates as more facts in the case emerge, its defenders are forced to come up with new and even more bizarre defenses. Take the loathsome online gossip rag Gawker and especially loathsome writer "Mobutu Sese Seko," who has now expanded the narrative to a new wrinkle--the claim that Zimmerman "beat" Trayvon. In an article 'Stand Your Ground’: Ladies, You Have No Ground to Stand on where he compares the case of George Zimmerman to Marissa Alexander, an African American woman who has become something of a cause célèbre on the left, Seko says:

The two cases beg for comparison. Martin, an African American teen, was chased, beaten and shot by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman named George Zimmerman.

Trayvon was beaten by Zimmerman? This is a bizarre fable to start spinning given the new evidence that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and black eyes while Trayvon suffered a laceration on his knuckle and the new description by a witness that Martin attacked Zimmerman "MMA style." Is Gawker suggesting that Zimmerman is an expert in some bizarre martial arts discipline that involves laying on the ground while your opponent straddles you and then repeatedly beating them in the fists with your eyes?

Gawker is desperate to neuter Zimmerman's self-defense claim by turning him into the attacker. Seko says later in the article (emphasis added):

The (Marissa Alexander) ruling is galling in light of the Martin killing, when you consider that George Zimmerman ignored a 911 dispatcher's comment that they did not need him to exit his car and pursue Trayon Martin, that he then hunted Martin through a neighborhood, fought him and shot him. Zimmerman walked free on the basis of a Stand Your Ground self-defense, despite not driving away in his safe and locked SUV, tracking and confronting the imminent Skittles-snacking threat to his life and engaging him in a fight.

What Gawker and their ilk in the Zimmerman lynch mob want to do is to take away even the most basic form of self defense: being aware of strangers in your neighborhood. They aren't just anti-Stand Your Ground, they aren't just anti-gun; they are anti-Ask Who Are You And What Are You Doing Here. Even thinking about questioning the presence of someone is racist racial profiling if that someone happens to be black.

Gawker has to ignore the facts in the Martin shooting in order to spin this tale, but by taking the extra step of actually making up a new charge against Zimmerman, they have moved into even more dangerous territory.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/20/Gawker-Shifts-Narrative-Again-Trayon-Was-Beaten-By-Zimmerman



I think Stranahan has a valid point. The progressive left would love to take away all rights to self-defense - no gun ownership or right to carry, no Stand Your Ground laws, no right to observe and question suspicious people in your own neighborhood.

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