Coffee Shop | No to WTO! Seattle 1999


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To: Opioi who wrote (11)12/1/1999 11:27:00 PM
From: Kid Rock   of 187
 
By the way, why did you choose the name of an anti-authoritarian rocker like Kid


Gotta make this money
and I make this money
This money is me
this money is everything I do and see
Who are you to judge me
Just let me be and let me breathe
-Kid Rock

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To: Opioi who wrote ()12/1/1999 11:58:00 PM
From: Eric Mason   of 187
 
Yes people do have a right to express their own opinions. But it does not give them the right to infringe on the rights of others. And yes that includes people involved in the WTO. That is why a separation has to take place. For those standing against the WTO and those for it.

When people use there bodies to block an entrance to an event, they are infringing on the rights of others and abusing there right of freedom of speech.

megaopps.com 

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To: Eric Mason who wrote (90)12/2/1999 12:14:00 AM
From: The Philosopher   of 187
 
When people use there bodies to block an entrance to an event, they are infringing on
the rights of others and abusing there right of freedom of speech.


That sounds good in theory. But then, of course, you are condemning all those who used their bodies to peacefully, nonviolently, but unlawfully sit-in segregated lunch counters in the South, blocking "legitimate" customers from using them; who blocked the entrances to segregated theaters and prevented patrons from going to the movies; who blocked the entrances to the Pentagon to protest the Vietnam War. And I wish thousands of German citizens had blocked the entrances to the concentration camps in and prevented the Nazis from shipping jews into them without confrontation or interference.

Sometimes direct action is necessary to confront injustice. (Assuming that you believe the WTO is an instrument of injustice, which I don't necessarily agree with but that's not relevant as long as legitimate protestors legitimately believe so). IMO violence and destruction are never appropriate. But blocking the entrances to a meeting room to interfere with the process of creating injustice (if you see it that way) has a certain legitimacy.

And sometimes those protests will infringe on others. That is part of the messiness of a free democratic society. Balancing those rights is one of the most challenging but essential tasks of our society. But just saying that such demonstrations or protests should never under any circumstances be permitted is not the way to guarantee freedoms for ourselves and our children.

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To: The Philosopher who wrote (91)12/2/1999 12:28:00 AM
From: Eric Mason   of 187
 
I'm not saying that you should prevent these demonstrations. But allow them to take place within view of there object of protest. They will probably get the same news coverage and probably coverage that is more positive towards there cause. When protests turn violent, they have negative effect on almost everything involved.

megaopps.com 

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To: Eric Mason who wrote (92)12/2/1999 1:28:00 AM
From: JBTFD   of 187
 
There were very few people who resorted to vandalism.

To be fair to the police I should point out:

1) They (the police) were severely outnumbered on Tuesday

2) The group of 30 or so that did a whole lot of the vandalism was doing it outside of the purview of the police. They were avoiding the police and moving quite quickly around in a random way. They did a lot of damage in a relatively short period of time. I was listening as a woman reporter followed them from a safe distance and described their activites.

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To: JBTFD who wrote (93)12/2/1999 1:43:00 AM
From: KLP   of 187
 
Even if there were "few people who resorted to vandalism" ONE was one too many. The interesting thing was that not only the reporters, but the police and others were actively taking videos of the vandals....With any luck at all, there will be pictures of them, and either they will be charged this time, or the next time, they decide to break the law.

Peaceful demonstrations are one thing....breaking the law is something entirely different. If the city officials had been more forceful earlier, no doubt there would have been plenty of negative things said....but the way things turned out, most people who see any of the actual clips as they were happening for hours on end, know just how much restraint the police used! The police did a great job, IMO!
KLP

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To: Null Dog Ago who wrote (34)12/2/1999 1:59:00 AM
From: JBTFD   of 187
 
<<<Clinton supposedly even had plans to meet with the protestors, but they blew it!>>>

Actually I heard on the news that later today (Wed) Clinton DID meet with some of the organizers of the protest.

The protest was a big success, in spite of the vandalism. Now people all over the world are thinking "What is this WTO?" That's the first step in making them accountable.

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To: KLP who wrote (94)12/2/1999 2:12:00 AM
From: JBTFD   of 187
 
<<<Even if there were "few people who resorted to vandalism" ONE was one too many>>>

Agreed. I have yet to find someone who supports the vandals' tactics.

As for videos, the "group of 30" I have mentioned were wearing ski stocking masks over their faces, so they would be hard to identify from any pictures or videos. Maybe there are some who have pictures of some other of the vandals. If so, I hope they catch and prosecute them.

I also agree that the police were very disciplined and should be commended. I saw a few incidences today that were a little harsh, like one where a woman had fallen on the curb and two others knelt down to help her up and a police officer sprayed them all with pepper spray. But overall they were pretty reasonable with the force used.

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To: JBTFD who wrote (95)12/2/1999 6:19:00 AM
From: Robert J   of 187
 
>>The protest was a big success, in spite of the vandalism. Now people all over the world are thinking "What is this WTO?" That's the first step in making them accountable.<<

Why was it a big success? What "sells" to the media the best? Sex or violence. If you think the vandals weren't part of the overall objective to get the most exposure then do I got a penny stock for you (G).

Bob

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To: Opioi who wrote (35)12/2/1999 8:45:00 AM
From: Nate   of 187
 
legal protest in the time of the boston tea partiers

actually it was seen as an illegal gathering at that time as well

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