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To: Chad Beemer who wrote (18843)3/9/2004 5:43:49 PM
From: MSI
   of 46835
 
"Fascist" = gov't+corp combined with programs for destruction of liberty and dramatically increasing authority of an all-powerful central gov't. That's what we have, my friend. The laws on the books now allow the pres, on his sole and exclusive authority to name you as one who consorts with terrorists, and subject you to secret trial with secret evidence and even secret execution. Peer through the rhetoric, and the power is there. This is exactly what the Framers wanted to protect against.

There are many who don't agree with me who I would not call "fascists". It takes guts to be a fascist. Most are just weak-minded do-gooders who do what they're told and believe any authority, including an idiot like Bush.

As far as GOP "historically not for big gov't", that's a joke. Both parties blame the other, with the result that neither represents you, but exclusively represent what Cay accurately called the "Donor Class" in his latest book "Perfectly Legal", those who put money and influence in front of officials, including sufficient money to buy elections, and the prettiest, most elaborate think-tank justifications you can imagine.

"Ask the people of Iraq..." I'm an "America First" type guy. My family comes first, then my community, then my country, then the planet. Stealing from my children to help impoverished imprisoned Iraqis is neither American, nor reasonable, at tens of thousands of deaths and hundreds of billions of dollars. Calling for volunteers for worldwide duty is one thing but the rest is bunk, witness the lies and profiteering. You can easily test the sincerity of those with high-minded rhetoric by proposing that like WWII all profits in excess of 10% from American tax dollars for such wonderful work be foregone, and that like the Civil War war profiteers who violate such rules be hung by the neck until dead. It is unlikely you'll get a favorable response, especially from those who claim to be wonderful corporate/gov't "do gooders". In reality, the sole purpose of their rhetoric is thieving as much as possible from the American taxpayer-citizen, regardless whether it causes hundreds, or hundreds of thousands of deaths of Iraqis, Americans or etc.

I would like to think I had trust in my government to do whats necessary for the good of everyone.

That attitude is exactly the problem. Such gullibility is unAmerican, and fails to notice how officials lie, then get away with lying, then lie again, then make the excuse like the neocon Iraqi did two weeks ago:"well, it doesn't matter what was said before -- this had to be done!". Incredible.

You have just stated exactly the position of useful idiots in Germany who "trusted" the National Socialist party, when the economy started zooming due to combined corporate-gov't deals and elaborate scapegoat propaganda.

"When the gov't fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear gov't you have tyranny"

Those in power make sure the laws are in place to put the fear of gov't into everyone, making everyone a criminal one way or another. The current P2 elements state that "all crimes" are acts of terrorism, blurring the line between the small lies claimed in P1 and creating the monstrous lie that (a)all crimes are terrorist and (b)all terrorist crimes are outside normal jurisprudence.

When the Executive Branch can do anything including imprisonment and execution, without public trial, it's martial law, regardless of the pretty face they attempt to put on it.

BTW, don't equate me with someone who believes in the death penalty. Shooting war profiteers is a polemic. At a certain level of dangerous and lethal arrogance, it's a fatal mistake to give the state the power to execute, not only for the 'honest' mistakes made, but for the more insidious ones. If I want the death penalty it'll be something I undertake under duress of self-defense, and I'll take my chances with a jury of my peers. I trust them more than the increasingly corrupt centrally-controlled gov't.

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To: xcr600 who wrote (18844)3/9/2004 6:17:48 PM
From: Chad Beemer
   of 46835
 
Well, I would not be surprised to see PETA step in and want a piece of this as according to them animals are just like people.

The sad part is I wish I were kidding. Today nothing surprises me anyone when it comes to rights issues of any kind.

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To: MSI who wrote (18845)3/9/2004 6:38:20 PM
From: Chad Beemer
   of 46835
 
Liberty has to be earned as there will always be obstacles
to certain liberties we have in this country. You also must remember that today its not just the executive branches but the judicial branches that seem to want to create their own laws.

Human nature in itself is driven by greed however today we see this more and more as people including government officials are manipulated by money and more power. It happens on both sides of the aisle.

You mention election fraud I remember that alot of dead people in Chicago voted for Kennedy when he narrowly defeated Nixon in the 60 election. I also remember recently about alot of Indians in South Dakota got hauled to voting booth to vote for Dascle in that close election.

The Democrat Party has generally been a party supposedly of the working class thus always wanting to seek out victims who have a need. Please give me one example of a country that ever became great with entitlement programs.

You are like many who name what comes first in their lives.
Yes family is important however it comes second to GOD. Without God we would not have the capacity to love or for that matter be a society of people who can get along.

Government was established to keep the order and protect the people. I don't like intrusivness more than anyone else however I also know that we have taken our freedom for granted for too long and it was just exploited on 9/11.

So you must feel like Lurch that the world today is not a safer place without Saddam Hussein in power in Iraq.

I thank God every day for what he does for me and how he blessed this nation. I also know it comes with a price.

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To: Chad Beemer who wrote (18847)3/9/2004 7:38:17 PM
From: xcr600
   of 46835
 
Why do you insist that god needs to be first in everyone's life? It sounds eerily similar to fundamentalism to me. I don't care if it's Muslim, Christian or Swahili, it's wrong.

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To: Chad Beemer who wrote (18843)3/9/2004 8:44:21 PM
From: Wayners
   of 46835
 
BOTH parties are for big government. You can blame Roosevelt for the floodgates to be opened for big Govt for blatant disregard for the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. Half of the Federal Government today is ILLEGAL.

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To: Chad Beemer who wrote (18829)3/9/2004 8:47:39 PM
From: Wayners
   of 46835
 
Socialists, Communists, Nazis, and Fascists are just different flavors of the same political party. The goal of each is to steal the wealth of others who earned it and replace themselves in the same positions without qualification or intellect, who then go onto to enslave their entire society 50 times worse than businesses ever did. Most times such societies slip from slavery into pure genocide. Big Government is NOT there to help you. Its there to help themselves to whatever YOU HAVE.

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To: Chad Beemer who wrote (18842)3/9/2004 9:39:02 PM
From: the navigator
   of 46835
 
Hopefully someday you will come to realize who God is and why he sent his son to show us not only his truths but the way we can someday be with him. Without God none of us would have the capacity to love anyone since God is love.

I hope you went to see "The Passion of the Christ" as it really showed what happenened from historical accounts of those last 12 hours of his life.


Chad, old boy, bad news....God is a Woman.

And regarding your movie:

sfgate.com

"See The Movie, Buy The Nail Jesus died for your sins -- and also to sell you a really bitchin' "Passion" coffee mug"

You, yes you, can right now purchase a truly stylin' sepia-toned "Passion of the Christ" cross-adorned coffee mug, an exact replica of the one Jesus Himself used every morning at the Jerusalem Starbucks.

You can buy "witnessing tools," including lapel pins labeled in indecipherable Aramaic (yay Aramaic! What a comeback! Who knew?) and lapel pins with crucifixes, and packs of "witnessing cards" to swap with your Jesus-happy friends, just like the Disciples did when they sat around the holy campfire, swapping tales of sad lost goddesses and making s'mores with communion wafers and pink Easter marshmallow peeps.

But nothing says "slightly masochistic Jesus fanatic" like adorning your fine self with a two-inch silver pewter crucifixion-nail pendant, hanging 'round your neck from a nice 24-inch leather cord. Oh my yes.

It's an actual product, available right now for about ten bucks from Mel Gibson's official "Passion of the Christ" movie Web site, while supplies last, which they will forever and ever because they're doubtlessly made in bulk by Malaysian sweatshop workers wearing faded "Lethal Weapon IV" T-shirts who all believe in a very unhappy Allah. Irony, it knoweth no boundaries.

The nail will be, I imagine, a hot-selling item indeed, given the desperate hoopla surrounding "Passion". Busloads of wide-eyed Christians trucked in by the tens of thousands, coupled with serious claims of anti-Semitism to ardent claims of lame historical revisionism and scary claims about Mel Gibson's ulterior agenda, given how he's, you know, a stringently conservative, ultradevout and allegedly antifeminist, homophobic member of a rather creepy orthodox Catholic sect called the Holy Family, a guy who is right now building his own, private, multimillion-dollar conservative-Catholic church somewhere outside Malibu where you will not want to ever visit.

And, as for the nail pendants, well, the late, great comedian Bill Hicks probably said it best when he commented, "A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. Do you think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a f--in' cross? It's kind of like going up to Jackie Onassis with a rifle pendant on."

And why not? Why not hawk cheap-ass Jesus-branded "Passion" movie tie-in swill and call it a way to spread "a message of hope by creating jewelry and gifts of exceptional quality, which will inspire people to express and share their faith"? This is America, dammit. Nothing is sacred -- especially that which is supposedly most sacred of all.

After all, cheap movie swag is an American tradition. We expect and demand it and aren't we all just a little shocked this time out that we can't have, say, a cute Mary Magdalene mood ring for girls that changes color as your divine feminine power is shut down and demonized and made whorelike by the Catholic elders? Free for a limited time inside specially marked Happy Meals.

Word has it that "Passion" is a brutal, horrific, harrowing film, almost pornographic in Gibson's obsession with depicting every gruesome detail of the torture of Jesus. And, while Gibson can be an excellent director, his film has many detractors already, like The New Yorker's David Denby, who calls the film a "sickening death trip" and "one of the cruellest movies in the history of the cinema." There is no doubt the movie contains powerful images and thought-provoking subject matter and bone-crushing dismemberments the likes of which we haven't seen since "The Last Temptation of Christ" and "Jaws IV: This Time It's Personal."

But, given the swag and the massive marketing push and the coffee mugs and the 20 bucks you gotta drop to go have yourself and a companion pummeled into guilty depressed submission, it is also, it must be repeated, yet another form of slick, brutally melodramatic propaganda, a harshly toned product disguised as an epic tale disguised as religious history wrapped in a heavy swooping organ-heavy soundtrack all designed to deliver one man's radicalized, masochistic, blood-soaked view of religious redemption.

And you know what? Hawking the sacred as cheap cheeseball tchotchke is nothing new. Every religion in the world does it, shamelessly, from Buddhism to Taoism to the psycho Scientology cult. Hell, the Vatican has been doing it for centuries, passing the plate and guilting the throngs into empowering the church to further guilt the throngs into empowering the church to buy massive amounts of property and political influence and some nice new robes and a huge team of pedophilia-defense lawyers.

No, the lesson here is not that it is unacceptable to try to do for Jesus what "Finding Nemo" did for clown fish. The lesson here is not merely that Mel Gibson is a religious bonkjob with a great eye for miserable, bloody battle scenes and giant nails being pounded through bloody hands by sadistic Roman thugs in hideous slo-mo.

The lesson here is simply a reminder, easily forgotten amongst the hype and the creepiness and the busloads of devout Christians who are finally getting their very own "Apocalypse Now," a film that has found a perfect mode by which to market a particularly harsh, ruthless religious view via well-worn channels of pop consumerism.

For the rest of us, it's worth remembering that the divine doesn't give a whit for salesmanship, or orthodoxy, or clever camera work, or violent swag. It has little patience for lopsided, agenda-ridden, sickeningly violent depictions of unspeakably cruel suffering. Epic biblical storytelling is well and fine and is always good for a protest and an outcry and a handsome, pained Jesus staring up at the sky, thinkin' 'bout love.

Hey, you want to engage Mel on his odd hyper-religious viewpoints and take his rampant historical inaccuracies to task and use his film as an awkward launching point to discuss Western religious doctrine, like so many religious leaders are promoting? Have at it.

As always, it is your choice. You can think you need to have your spiritual belief coated in gallons of blood and death and grisly sacrifice and really bitchin' cinematography, of cruel beatings and nightmarish tortures and gruesome crucifixions, and that's what you want to zero in on and make extra-super clear and "real" so as to have everyone be equally hammered into guilty pulpy submission.

Or, you know, you don't. Jesus, rumor has it, didn't die for sin. He died for enlightenment. He didn't die so people would walk around all day in ugly nail necklaces thinking about bloody violent death, swapping quote cards and thinking they know something of the divine. He died to indicate humanity's need to purge itself of hate, war, violence and ego -- you know, all those things now performed in his name. Right, Dubya?

It might be as simple as saying, you know, the last thing anyone really needs hammered into them right now is more brutal, fanatical sanctimony on a string.

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To: xcr600 who wrote (18848)3/9/2004 11:10:53 PM
From: Chad Beemer
   of 46835
 
Just go out and get the book "The Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren as it was a NY Times #1 Bestseller. After you read this book then come back and let me know what you discover. Discovering your purpose in life will change you life if you open your heart and mind.

I need not say any more as you'll have to do the rest on your own free will.

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To: Wayners who wrote (18849)3/9/2004 11:14:43 PM
From: Chad Beemer
   of 46835
 
I don't think you would be happy regardless as you seem to be filled with alot of misery and frustration. No matter what the government does or doesn't do would likely either disappoint you or upset you.

I suggest you too go get a copy of "The Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren. Its a NY Times Bestseller that will anyone understand their purpose in life. We'd have a much better world if more people would live by the these truths.

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To: Wayners who wrote (18850)3/9/2004 11:23:14 PM
From: Chad Beemer
   of 46835
 
One of the problems we have big government today is that we have established a society of victims who are looking for some kind of entitlement. This type of assistance should be more the responisiblity of the Church. We have a responsibility of those in need therefore we need more willing people who will fill that need. This is where greed comes in as too many of us are unwilling to give of our time or money to support this problem.

Remember its not money but the love of money that is the root of all evil.

Jesus himself said to render to Ceasar what is Ceasars but render to God what is Gods. Without a government which implements laws (Established from the Bible) there would be nothing but chaos. Our government is not perfect but its the best one that I know of in the world.

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