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To: Solon who wrote (25246)4/23/2012 10:33:25 PM
From: Greg or e   of 36634
 
The Flying Spaghetti Monster Video

str.typepad.com 

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To: LLCF who wrote (25384)4/23/2012 10:54:23 PM
From: Solon   of 36634
 

It takes 20 seconds to start!

youtube.com 

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To: Solon who wrote (25366)4/23/2012 11:57:20 PM
From: Greg or e   of 36634
 
Richard Dawkins’ scientific fallacies April 17, 2012 Some recent internet discussion raised the question as to Richard Dawkins’ scientific knowledge outside of his own narrow field. This wouldn’t matter, of course, if he didn’t claim to have such wider knowledge, but he does. The following lengthy extract from “Who made God?” explores the way he manages to mangle physics in an attempt to support his highly debatable claims. The extract is the opening section of Chapter 11 of WMG.

11. Over the moon

‘For we say that all portents [miracles] are contrary to nature; but they are not so. For how is that contrary to nature which happens by the will of God, since the will of so mighty a Creator is certainly the nature of each created thing? A portent, therefore, happens not contrary to nature, but contrary to what we know as nature’.

St. Augustine, The City of God, Book XXI, Ch. 8.

‘The miracles in fact are a retelling in small letters of the very same story which is written across the whole world in letters too large for some of us to see. Of that larger script, part is already visible, part is still unsolved’.

C. S. Lewis in God in the dock; essays on theology and ethics (Eerdmans, 1994) p.29

‘Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle,

The cow jumped over the moon;

The little dog laughed to see such fun

And the dish ran away with the spoon’.

British nursery rhyme, 1765.

Isn’t life strange? You look in vain for a good quotation and then three come along together! Unlike buses, however, you don’t have to choose which one to take; you can use all three. And that’s just as well because we are going to need as much help as we can get as we turn from the laws of nature to consider things that appear to violate them — miracles.

You don’t believe in miracles? That’s a pity, because Richard Dawkins does. You didn’t know that Richard Dawkins believes in miracles? Yes, really, though he would prefer to call them ‘extremely improbable events’ rather than miracles. But don’t take my word for it, read what he says himself . Dawkins writes:

‘A miracle is something that happens, but which is exceedingly surprising. If a marble statue of the Virgin Mary suddenly waved its hand at us we should treat it as a miracle, because all our experience and knowledge tells us that marble doesn’t behave like that’ [ii].

He continues, ‘In the case of the marble statue, molecules in solid marble are continually jostling against one another in random directions. The jostlings of the different molecules cancel one another out, so that the whole hand of the statue stays still. But if, by sheer coincidence, all the molecules just happened to move in the same direction at the same moment, the hand would move. If they then all reversed direction at the same moment the hand would move back. In this way it is possible for a marble statue to wave at us. It could happen. The odds against such a coincidence are unimaginably great but they are not incalculably great. A physicist colleague has kindly calculated them for me. The number is so large that the entire age of the universe so far is too short a time to write out all the noughts! It is theoretically possible for a cow to jump over the moon with something like the same improbability. The conclusion to this part of the argument is that we can calculate our way into regions of miraculous improbability far greater than we can imagine as plausible’ [iii].

We’ll come to the cow in a moment. Let’s first examine the hand-waving. RD seems to be under the illusion that marble is a gas in which molecules move around randomly and can finish up anywhere they like. Unfortunately for his miracle (‘It could happen’ he says), marble is not a gas but a crystalline solid composed of calcite, aragonite and/or dolomite crystals. The atoms or ions that compose these crystals are not free to wander where they will but are locked into the crystal lattice and vibrate about their mean position at a frequency that is typically around 15 Teraherz — that is 15,000 billion times per second. Any atom that tried to set off on the long-range journey envisaged in Dawkins’ miracle is going to be hauled back to its starting point in short order (exceedingly short order).

But let’s suppose for argument’s sake that the all the atoms in the statue’s hand did suddenly move in the same direction. What would happen? As soon as they had moved less than their interatomic separation (let’s say a hundred millionth of a centimetre or four billionths of an inch) the boundary between the moving hand and the stationary arm would experience a sudden outward pull. Since every action produces an equal and opposite reaction, the unmoving arm will restrain the hand from moving further and will, in fact, pull it back to and beyond its original position — creating an oscillation that would travel throughout both hand and statue as a sound-wave. You might hear Dawkins’ miracle but you certainly wouldn’t see it.

A second problem is that a spontaneous movement of the statue’s hand would violate the laws of conservation of energy and linear momentum (the velocity of a body in a straight line multiplied by its mass). Prior to the Dawkins miracle, the hand has neither linear momentum nor kinetic energy (the energy of motion). Suddenly the atoms all move upwards in the same direction and the whole hand takes off towards the ceiling. It now has both linear momentum and kinetic energy, neither of which it had before. Two basic physical laws of conservation have been broken and Thomas Huxley’s chess master wouldn’t like that at all.

It’s no use saying that the new momentum and energy come from the motion of atoms within the hand. Before the miracle, the collective momentum of the assembled atoms is zero because the atoms vibrate randomly and their movements cancel out. So if the hand moves and acquires linear momentum, this momentum has appeared from nowhere. Likewise, the kinetic energy of the hand cannot come from the vibrational motion of the atoms, because this energy simply reflects the temperature of the solid and is not available to move anything.

We’ll leave aside other naivities — such as the implication that marble, if not exactly gaseous, is at least made of plasticine so that the statue’s wrist can flex without snapping off — and get to the point. Dawkins says ‘it could happen’ but he is wrong. It couldn’t. The idea that the internal motion of atoms in a lump of crystalline rock could somehow cause that lump to move from here to there is scientifically ridiculous. Harry Potter it may be, but science it is not. Which brings me to the moo-cow and the moon.

The kinetic cow

Can the cow really jump over the moon? According to Richard Dawkins, yes, it can. ‘It is theoretically possible’, he avers, with more solemnity than I can muster on the subject. Personally, I’m with the little dog in the nursery rhyme, so let’s have some fun (‘sport’ in the American version of the rhyme). Let’s begin by giving credit where it is due. Even without the help of Harry Potter, Dawkins has at his disposal three possible lines of argument — bootstrap-elevation, the bovine wave-function, or telekinesis. Let’s take a look at all three.

We have already seen one fine example of bootstrap-elevation (picking yourself up by your bootstraps) in the strange case of the waving statue. Let’s try another. I’m sure Richard D and I can agree that the cow’s unaided muscle power couldn’t propel it over a haystack, let alone the moon. So how does our bovine astronaut acquire her kinetic energy and achieve escape velocity without the services of NASA? Ah, you might reply, consider an equatorial cow. Being located on the surface of the earth at the equator, it already has a huge velocity, travelling through space at more than 1000 mph due to the rotation of the earth. Could this not launch the cow into space by a kind of slingshot effect? Well, hardly. If it could, we would all be over the moon (as they say) along with the cow. But even worse, the moon itself would be travelling away from us as fast as we could approach it. There’s something called gravity that keeps both cows and speculations in their place (and moons too).

How about an appeal to quantum mechanics (QM) then? Perhaps this is what Richard Dawkins has in mind (he doesn’t give much detail about his moo miracle). If electrons and photons can have wave-functions, why not cows? You will remember from Chapter 2 that sub-atomic particles behave in strange ways that can only be explained by assuming that they are not located in a single place but only have a certain probability of being somewhere. This probability is specified by the wave-function which varies in strength from place to place but exists everywhere — so there is a non-zero probability that the particle could be anywhere in the universe.

If we apply this idea to the cow, then her presence beyond the moon, though highly improbable, is not impossible. Furthermore, QM actually does teach that each and every object has a wave function that spreads throughout space. Wow! Perhaps RD really has hit the bullseye (or the cow’s) this time? Sadly, no. We’ll let his friend Victor Stenger put him right: ‘quantum mechanics changes smoothly into classical mechanics when the parameters of the system, such as masses, distances, and speeds, approach the classical [large-scale] regime. When that happens, quantum probabilities collapse to either zero or 100%, which then gives us certainty at that level’ [iv]. Stenger is here referring to a phenomenon in QM known as ‘decoherence’. For reasons not well understood, quantum particles that exhibit wave-function behaviour when isolated from other particles (or when coherent with them), cease to do so when they interact with the environment [v]. If there are too many particles of different kinds knocking around, all their wave functions get nervous and ‘collapse’ — meaning that instead of having the freedom to turn up anywhere, each particle decides where it wants to be with 100% certainty. Perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised. After all, as we saw in Chapter 2, you only have to look at a quantum particle to make its wave function collapse in this way.

The outcome of all this is that every particle — electron, quark, atom and so on — in our long-suffering cow (or any other massive object) knows exactly where it is, even before we look at it. It’s right there in the cow and nowhere else (which is what we mean by classical or non-quantum behaviour). But if all the constituent parts of the cow know they are localised in a field on a farm in (say) Filey or Farnborough, it is evident that neither the cow nor any part of it will be found on the other side of the moon. There really is no such thing as a cosmic cow.

Telekinesis

OK; how about telekinesis? Telekinesis or psychokinesis refers to the alleged movement of solid objects by pure thought. Could Richard Dawkins be trying to think the cow over the moon — or simply wish it there? I believe this could be the answer to the conundrum. But why would he want to do that? The answer takes us to the heart of his thinking.

The problem for Richard Dawkins and his fellow atheists is this. They face serious difficulty in explaining the ‘miracle’ of the origin of life in a purely materialistic way. Indeed, the problem appears insuperable, as we shall see in the next chapter. But let’s just accept for the moment that atheism currently has no answer to the riddle. The careful atheist will not appeal to as-yet-unknown scientific discoveries for an explanation, because he recognises that such an argument is a mirror-image of the God of the gaps theory he so despises. So what can he do? His first strategy is to ‘prove’ that even the most bizarre events imaginable — like marble motility or bovine ballistics — could conceivably occur by natural causation. Of course, his explanations fail miserably at the scientific level, but that will not worry him unduly as long as he succeeds in planting in our minds the hazy idea that any ‘miracle’ may have a natural explanation.

But then comes the tricky bit. He now needs to make an agile leap from ‘miracles may have a natural cause’ to ‘miracles must have a natural cause’. This he attempts to do using our old friend ‘probability’. Specifically, he advances the thesis that everything imaginable in the physical universe will surely happen by natural causation if you wait long enough, provided only that its mathematical probability is not zero. And this sounds plausible because, having rejected the old Newtonian idea of a deterministic universe, we can rule out nothing in principle. But although plausible the thesis is false, because mathematical probabilities bear no necessary relationship to physical possibilites, as we saw in Chapter 1. It is mathematically possible to build an infinitely tall tower of bricks but it is physically impossible to do so, because sooner or later the weight of the tower will crush the bottom brick to powder and the whole (non-infinite) tower will collapse. Before mathematical probabilities can be applied to the real world they have to be passed through the twin filters of logic and physical reality.

The fact is that we can imagine very few physical events that are mathematically impossible. ‘Impossibilities’ arise in the physical universe not from mathematical constraints but from the laws of nature (such as the non-infinite compressive strength of bricks). It’s not mathematics that prevent statues waving or cows jumping over the moon, but the stubborn facts that energy and momentum must be conserved and that QM wave-functions decohere in massive objects.





We are indebted to Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wilker for drawing this Dawkinsian purple passage to wider attention in their book Answering the new atheism; dismantling Dawkins’ case against God (Emmaus Road Publishing, Ohio, 2008) pp. 10-13.


[ii] Richard Dawkins, The blind watchmaker; why the evidence of evolution reveals a universe without design (New York, Norton, 1996) p.159. See also The God delusion (Bantam Press edition, 2007) p.419.


[iii] Richard Dawkins, The blind watchmaker, pp. 159-160.


[iv] Victor Stenger, God, the failed hypothesis (Prometheus Books, 2007) p.125.


[v] Brian Greene. See Chapter 7 of The fabric of the cosmos (Alfred Knopf, 2004) for an extended discussion of quantum decoherence.

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To: ponokee who wrote (25359)4/24/2012 12:01:12 AM
From: Solon   of 36634
 
Incredible stuff happening!

Tech Billionaires Plan Audacious Mission to Mine Asteroids

wired.com 

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To: Solon who wrote (25387)4/24/2012 12:01:38 AM
From: ponokee   of 36634
 
This sums up gregoree's religion and world-view better than words could ever say.

wimp.com 

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To: Solon who wrote (25387)4/24/2012 12:13:36 AM
From: LLCF   of 36634
 
Yours AND mine?? You COMMIE!!

Lol

At first I thought that was a link to "bongsnort" TV!!

DAK

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To: ponokee who wrote (25390)4/24/2012 12:13:38 AM
From: Solon   of 36634
 
LOL! I can picture EEeek crawling into the kennel!

On a more serious note than Fundy Clowns..a step back in time!

youtube.com 

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To: ponokee who wrote (25390)4/24/2012 12:40:27 AM
From: Solon   of 36634
 
Stomping out the roses in Alberta!

news.nationalpost.com 

Canadian tories are generally pretty cool! We are not too much into Theocracy down here!

The Canadian Human Rights Act has nothing to do with religion and superstition. It is secular . It deals with Nature.

It deals with men and women!

And if you wear a skirt, you can still teach Sunday School! -g-

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To: Solon who wrote (25393)4/24/2012 1:25:27 AM
From: ponokee   of 36634
 
I wonder how The Angry Potter voted? If he lived in Ireland his house could be turned into a shrine and he could evade taxes.

-edit- NDP four seats? Must be some kind of record!

Irish bishops' palaces are exempt from homes charge

By Ken Foxe

PUBLISHED: 23:05 GMT, 21 April 2012 | UPDATED: 23:05 GMT, 21 April 2012




Controversy: Phil Hogan

It may have the country’s largest private property portfolio but despite owning thousands of houses, the Catholic Church does not have to pay a cent in household charges.

The Church, which at one point owned or occupied at least 10,700 houses, schools, halls, churches and shops around the country, has an exemption from all property taxes because it is a charity.

With 1,368 parishes in Ireland – many containing several parochial homes and other properties – the Church may be getting off the hook for up to €500,000 a year in Environment Minister Phil Hogan’s new tax, despite its massive wealth and land interests.

The charge may be just €100 a year at current rates but the Government is expected to introduce much higher fees, which could rise to €1,000 for certain properties.

Archbishops and other senior church figures sleeping in their luxurious palaces can rest easy however, as their homes will not be subject to the charge.

This could mean a shortfall in excess of €1m per year in the tax take the Government would have hoped for as the full charges are introduced over the next three years.

'They are all exempt from tax'

The revelation is sure to put pressure on the Fine Gael/Labour coalition to end the exemption for Church buildings. A similar controversy in Italy – where the Catholic Church owns nearly a fifth of all Italian properties – ended with the Church having to pay up for its property.

A spokesman for the Catholic Church in Ireland said that all properties held by it in the Republic of Ireland were effectively exempt.

He said: ‘The Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 provides for exemptions from payment of the ­household charge to “certain ­charities”.

‘To date, charities who have obtained a CHY number (ie charity number) are exempt from payment of taxes. Church property in the majority of Irish dioceses is held in a diocesan trust, has a CHY number and is regarded as a charity.’



Palace: Archbishop Martin

The spokesman added: ‘Where it is held under another structure the title holders clearly hold the property in trust for the diocese and the property has the same status.’

‘All Church property – which includes churches, schools and priests’ houses – are the ­property of parishes and ­dioceses. As such, they are exempt from tax.’

The Church has sought clarification on whether it would ever be subject to household taxes but has not yet received an answer, according to the spokesman. He said: ‘The Irish Bishops’ Conference established a Diocesan Advisory Committee some years ago to help prepare for the introduction of the Charities Act 2009.

‘In the context of the household charge, the bishops’ committee has sought clarification on this matter. There has been no official reply to date.’

Mystery surrounds the extent of the Church’s land portfolio but one survey estimated that at one stage the Catholic Church held 1% of all properties in the State.

'Nobody knows how much Church owns'

In the 1970s, the Church owned or occupied more than 10,700 properties around the country and controlled almost 6,700 religious and educational sites.

Its vast property bank included schools, houses, halls, churches, convents, parks, sports fields, hospitals, farms, warehouses, shops and empty sites.

Included among those figures were several thousand private homes, retained for use by clergy and religious, such as the Drumcondra palace where Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin lives.

A spokesman said: ‘You are looking at more than 1,300 parishes around the country, some very small and some covering a much larger area. While there might only be a single residence in one parish, in others, there could be 10 or 12. The truth is nobody knows.’

Religious orders have sold land worth €667m over the past 10 years but are still regarded as the country’s second largest landlord, with only the State itself owning more property around the country.

Ten years ago, former taoiseach Bertie Ahern signed a controversial deal with the Catholic Church that indemnified it from compensation claims from clerical abuse ­victims.

In exchange the Church agreed to hand over land and property to the State worth an estimated €80m before the property crash.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133331/Irish-bishops-palaces-exempt-homes-charge.html#ixzz1syI5JWB5

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To: Solon who wrote (25392)4/24/2012 1:58:34 AM
From: ponokee   of 36634
 
I was reading a history of Herod this morning - what incredible achievements he made in his lifetime.

en.wikipedia.org 

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